If Lucifer was banished to Hell, doesn't that mean that Hell was created already? And that God was evil enough to create it?
Jesus threatens us with Hell.
God is evil. He authored many wars and genocides throughout the old testament.
I only said that you would reply and say your main points to attack me so I would not have to read that entire post... ::)
He'll tell you if you go to Heaven or Hell depending on your deeds
He'll tell you if you go to Heaven or Hell depending on your deeds
ok then If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?
Main Entry: 1fear
Pronunciation: 'fir
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English feren, from Old English f[AE]ran, from f[AE]r
transitive verb
1 archaic : FRIGHTEN
2 archaic : to feel fear in (oneself)
3 : to have a reverential awe of <fear God>
4 : to be afraid of : expect with alarm <fear the worst>
intransitive verb : to be afraid or apprehensive <feared for their lives>
- fearĀ·er noun
yea if you believe in God. you're are a good person. (But still a little bad.) But doing things that God doesn't like (Drugs, Killing.) Then he'll send you to hell.
Just so you know, I hope to make this a debate and not a argument. That was a good point and you got me there but... I have more.
Or, if you kick total ass you go to Valhalla.
Have you never felt God tug at your heart?
A Case for Faith
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying evolution is false, I'm saying creation through evolution is not possible. Things evolve everyday, but single cell organisms cannot form into multi cellular organisms. The simple cell cannot become a complex cell. DNA is made up of tiny signatures or codes. These codes are written in groups of 4 letters (amino acids). The chances of a single strand of code properly being formed is already 1/256 . But to form a living organism, you need more than one strand of code, you need 100's of thousands. The chance of that happening is beyond 1 * 10**231 (1 times ten to the 231st power). Way beyond. And to say this happened multiple times? Also the strands of DNA would most likely be destroyed. "Early earth" didn't have the correct conditions to sustain such a transition.
Honestly, I've read large parts of the Bible, I'm fascinated by it. Almost obsessed you might say. By that and scientology, but that's a whole other story, but, you know, I'm obsessed and fascinated with all that shit.
As I said, I've read large parts of the Bible, and I will say, honestly, that the Bible truly is, one of the funniest books I've ever read. It's fucking FUNNY. I mean, right out of the gate it's funny. I mean the first six pages. I mean, that shit is the most D&D bullshit crazy shit. "And then, the all-powerful... thing, SWOOPED DOWN and sent a plague of frogs upon all the heathens. Let's give him more powers! Roll the die."
"And then he was dead for three days, and ROSE UP TO HEAVEN!" That's total D&D nonsense.
The Bible is so crazy. First of all, if you know the history of the Bible, and just its entire massive history, and how it was written in these dead languages and then translated and then re-translated into other languages and then re-translated by monarchs based on their whims and, you know, all this shit, and people interpret it in their own way, and you sit there, and you still after all that, realize that the Bible was written thousands of years ago when people were EVEN DUMBER than we are today. Think about that. Go outside, wait till the bars empty out, fucking go home, watch FOX TV, and realize that, "Wow, the Bible was written by people even dumber than all these motherfuckers."
That's the Bible you're reading, and has been read to you for generations. I mean, it's absurd to believe in that shit because, all right, first of all - forget that, let's just look at Genesis. Just as an example.
Rigt off the bat, I swear, the funniest six pages in literary history. God, this all-powerful God, decides he's gonna make Earth. It takes him six days, to make Earth. There's all kinds of other crazy shit going on. But it takes him six days, six calendar days, I assume it's a Gregorian Calendar. Six days to make the Earth, and then... he rests, on the seventh day because he's exhausted. "Whoo, man. Those rivers took a lot outta me." IT"S FUCKING GOD! God gets tired? God needs a nap? This isn't the God I was made to understand exists and rules all our lives. God gets tired after six days.
Then, he decides to make this HUGE planet. HUGE. Massive planet. It takes him six fucking days. It's huge. He makes the ice caps. He makes Ecuador. He makes New Jersey. He makes this huge planet. And then he decides, "You know what? I'm gonna put one dude in there. One guy." So he makes Adam... "Enjoy!", and leaves, to go make Venus, I guess.
So he makes Adam, and then it occurs to him later, when he checks back in on him: "Aw, he's lonely. Aw, shit, I forgot to make other people for him to hang out with. I thought he'd be able to communicate with the sparrow. But, I guess he's just sitting, and taking a shit, not knowing what to do. I didn't really have the foresight. Well, what the fuck do I know? I'm just God I know everything." So when Adam's sleeping he takes a rib out and makes Eve for him.
Then Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel. Well, first of all, there's the thing with the snake and the tree. We all know that story, I don't wanna - it's quite sad. It is our original fall from grace.
Then Cain slays Abel, his brother, and then Cain's punishment is that he's banished from Eden and he has to go to Nod, where God provides him with a wife. So, his punishment is that he doesn't have to hang out with his parents anymore, and there's somebody he can fuck whenever he wants. That's his punishment. And he didn't even lose a rib for it!
But the best part about the Bible is in Genesis, in like, page 2 through 6, when Cain gets banished, and they have to explain how they get from four people, they get to Noah's time, where the Bible kind of kicks in again, and there's like six pages of explaining four people to a million, without explaining, you know, evolution, or... incest or anything. Because there was a LOT of motherfuckin' going on there. A lot of motherfucking, sisterfucking, daughterfucking... tons of fucking... rampant incest. Tons of incest. They just explain how we get to a million people without explaining evolution which is so obviously a load of shit, haha. You know, come on! The scientists with their theories, and their facts! Pssh, you know? That's nonsense, everybody knows it was a talking snake in a tree. We all know that! That's how the Earth started! It wasn't some long, protracted evolutionary process it was a talking snake in a tree.
I tell you what, if you're actually that dumb - if you actually don't believe in evolution, if you really are that deluted, then I tell you what: As an experiment, give an elderly person and a chimpanzee a camera, and watch them both try to operate it. Same fucking thing. They'll both thy to figure it out, and it'll flash and the chimp will run around scared, and take a shit and throw it around. And the elderly person just takes a shit, and that's evolution, is that where we progressed to where the elderly people do not throw their poo around, and we're better off for it.
So, in Genesis there's this long list of people. But the best part is they all grow up to be 840 years old. 910 years old. 940 years old. And you're reading this going, "What? 940 years old? Oh my god!". Have you seen a 100-year old? What kind of fucking god is making people be 940 years old? If you're 100, you fall down, break your hip, and that's it. Wherever you land, that's where you going to be for the next eight hundred motherfucking years. You are nothing but a shit and piss factory my friend. You just sit there and hope a piece of fruit falls off a tree and lands near your face, so you have something to eat.
Look around you. Do you think this came about by chance? For all we know God put us here; two people from opposite sides of the country, who never would have met otherwise are discussing a life changing subject. Have you never felt God tug at your heart?
It's foolish to say this came about by chance. Even if you don't believe in God, to say it came about by chance would be foolish. Mankind has tried as much as possible to turn away from the logical solution of a living God and turn to the illogical solution of evolution.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying evolution is false, I'm saying creation through evolution is not possible. Things evolve everyday, but single cell organisms cannot form into multi cellular organisms. The simple cell cannot become a complex cell. DNA is made up of tiny signatures or codes. These codes are written in groups of 4 letters (amino acids). The chances of a single strand of code properly being formed is already 1/256 . But to form a living organism, you need more than one strand of code, you need 100's of thousands. The chance of that happening is beyond 1 * 10**231 (1 times ten to the 231st power). Way beyond. And to say this happened multiple times? Also the strands of DNA would most likely be destroyed. "Early earth" didn't have the correct conditions to sustain such a transition.
Even if it was possible, that does not answer the origin of life itself. Who put that stuff there? Martians? Okay, then who created the martians? Mankind has tried to dodge the question for centuries comming up with more and more (well though out I'll admit yet still -- ) foolish ideas and ignore the logical conclusion of a supernatural creation. One by a living God.
Someone living in an area not discovered by the masses can look around and say that there must be a God. Why is it that they can, and we can't.
Back to your original question, "How can I truely see if God is real?"
It's not a knowing. It's an understanding. You can "know" you flushed the toilet. You can "know" you did your homework. But you can still be wrong. But when you truely seek God, you WILL find Him. The understanding is there, He speaks to you "Here I am, I have been with you always."
It's like a knowledge you've had your entire life yet always overlooked.
Also, if it's not real, then how come 100's of thousands of people feel His presence every day? If He's not real, how can that many people fool themselves with the exact same illusion?
EDIT : I'll be back in a bit too, I've got to shower. Also I recommend the book - A Case for Faith. I'm reading it right now (actually, I lost it *sad face*, but am in the proccess of reading it). If nothing else, it's a good read to understand the question you asked me.
I have some questions...
I god created the universe and everything init, who created god?
I have some questions...Somethings are meant to happen. sAy someone comes to rob your house and you tell him plz dont rob my house, its not gonna happen.
How come when people are sick people pray and ask god for them to get better, and then the person dies and the people then go on to say that its what god wanted?
They go on acting like nothng happned but God ignores there prayers? WTF?
Actually God is not a he. He is not a she either, God is beyond these material sepearation (which actually proves: men and women are equal in a spiritual view). I know, it's hard to understand and I can't explain it either, nobody can.
The reason why God is called with he is because he is refered as the father and during the time (thousands of years B.C.) men were the dominating sex, so nobody could actually have accepted that God is a she. And even less that is is neither and both, because he is beyond that.
Also what sense would life have if all prayers would be answered? This would be Heaven then. (Actually it would turn everything into chaos, but let's not consider this fact now... (^_^'))
You feel god, know he's there. You think you do. You've thought it for so long, that eventually you can't fathom the idea of it being false. Basically: Religion : roll :
Do you think I was a christian from the start?
When I became saved a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.
That post was not full of brainwashed nonsense.
If you see it as that, then who do you really think has been brainwashed?
I can't post this in Intelligant debate, becaues of obvious reasons. Yet it is not spam, so here it is.
QuoteJesus threatens us with Hell.
Where in the Bible does He threaten us with Hell? Give me a verse and I will look into it for you. Where does He say "IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE ME, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!". No where. What He does say, however, is "Mankind is born with sin, God my Father loves all, but sin His kingdom can not have. It is not the Will of God for all to perish, but rather to have everlasting life. Choose me and toss off your burdens, let me carry them as I carried the cross for you, then can you enter Heaven, for that is My Will."
I don't know if you notice, but that is God saying "Give me all of your troubles, I will bear the weight, give me all of your sin, I will make you pure as I have died for you on the cross.
Where does He say "IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE ME, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!". No where.
Choose me and toss off your burdens, let me carry them as I carried the cross for you, then can you enter Heaven, for that is My Will."
QuoteGod is evil. He authored many wars and genocides throughout the old testament.
Well... Yes and No.
You have to realize that the people who God ordered be destroyed were not nice people. If you read in context, you'll realize that there was a common theme among these people. They hated God, they hated God's people (Jews). They would stop at nothing to destroy God's people. They were dangerous. God had to do something or the blood line through which he would enter Earth and take the punishment for our sins would be destroyed.
Now, there were also many women and children killed as well.
Consider this.
IF God were to allow them to live, what would happen? When the child is old enough, the mother will tell the child of the hated race that destroyed their people, and of the God who ordered it. The child will become filled with hatred and... would vow to destroy God's chosen people. The same problem would resurface.
Now, let's say he killed the mothers, but let the children live.
Do I even have to go into this? They would most likely die an agonizing death all alone in the flipping desert.
Is God Evil?
It certainly seems so to those against Him, He is a dangerous adversary, He made everyone, so He know's everyone's weaknesses.
To those on His side? He is a kind and merciful God, willing to give up everything just so we could be with Him for eternity.
@HoTS - Wow, erm, thanks for insulting my innermost convictions.
I never said God couldn't create through evolution, I said it was impossible for it to happen naturaly.
Of course, I don't believe God created through evolution either.
The very first thing the Bible says God created was Light and Dark, which he sepearated into the moon and the sun.
The bible says it took him 7 days to create the earth. He had already created a method with which WE OURSELVES could keep track of time. He used this time method to show how long it took Him. (Sun Up, Sun Down, Day) Evolution takes proccess over millions of years. Why would God take millions of years to do something, then lie and say it only took Him 7 days. God is pure, He does not lie. He's righteous, if He lied He wouldn't be able to enter His own kingdom.
I can't help but read this shit and feel sick. People like Tsuno disgust me. How can anyone hold such conviction for a fantasy? So many people are obsessed with this intangible imaginary entity that they call their god. Try taking your head out of the clouds for a minute and look at the world with your own eyes. Think with you own mind. You speak of god lifting your burdens, but I say god IS the burden. Everywhere you go you take him with you. He tells you what to do or what to think. Why would you do this? How could anyone prefer the word of god to independence? Are you too scared, too incompetent to face the world youself? Do you need this shield called god to blind you? I don't think I'll ever understand, but it disgusts me either way.
@Jesus Hitler -
1st Comment - I'm not a coward, I just happen to know from experience that topics like this are less likely to become flamed if they're not in Intelligant Debate.
2nd Comment - You're correct in saying the ony alternative is Hell. That does not mean He threatened us with it. It's like a parent telling the child, "You can continue to throw a temper tantrum and go to your room, or you can stop and we'll go get ice cream. I don't want to punish you, but I will if I have to because leaving you on the floor is not an option."
3rd Comment - Let me rephrase this. God is neither Good NOR Bad (for those are terms we came up with). God is, however, righteous. He will punish those who have done wrong and will reward those who have done right. He will destroy evil, and nurture good.
Gil, you have said all that needs to be said.
Shut up.
Gil, you have said all that needs to be said.
Do you believe in god?
-Yes
-No
@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.
@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.
@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.
How silly. God only seems to prove his reality who want him to be real.
By the way - Respond to the parts of my post regarding evolution.
I just did... I said that's why it's called FAITH. Also I explained why it can't happen naturally.
I just did... I said that's why it's called FAITH. Also I explained why it can't happen naturally.
Then your ideas about evolution are worthless because nothing about them is based in fact.
Hang on, what makes them worthless.
The faith part was refering to your question about the Bible being trustworthy.
Even secular scientists have said that evolution is highly improbable. I explained why it can't be true in an earlier post.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=590
http://www.carm.org/evolution/evodds.htm
http://bioinfo.med.utoronto.ca/Evolution_by_Accident/Evolution_by_Accident.html
metaphorical language so even the most simple (and maybe most stupid...) human can understand
I can't help but read this shit and feel sick. People like Tsuno disgust me. How can anyone hold such conviction for a fantasy? So many people are obsessed with this intangible imaginary entity that they call their god. Try taking your head out of the clouds for a minute and look at the world with your own eyes. Think with you own mind. You speak of god lifting your burdens, but I say god IS the burden. Everywhere you go you take him with you. He tells you what to do or what to think. Why would you do this? How could anyone prefer the word of god to independence? Are you too scared, too incompetent to face the world youself? Do you need this shield called god to blind you? I don't think I'll ever understand, but it disgusts me either way.Maybe you will disgust me to, along with one of our best scripters. Its not fantasy its simple truth. God exist. Our head is not imagining things in the clouds, we know that this has happened. God Does not lift our burderns, he helps us fight them. If we do bad we get bad yet God tries to reduce the bad we get. God IS NOT burden, he is support. WE are not scared to fight all as God helps who helps themselves. God is not a sheild, or we;d never get anything bad, He is a support to help us. I dont think youd ever understand this theory that God is better than our best friend.
The problem is when people mindlessly believe it and take it literally- then you get all those crazy fundies.
Nightwolf: Cite your sources. If the rocks float, why were they at the bottom of the sea?YOu know that was like in the 1st century, and BTW lets say if you're living right now why will u die after some years?
EDIT : Looking for better examples. (First two are Christian, second is for evolution *i think*. It's hard to tell lol)
EDIT 2 : I'm too tired to look them up right now. The first two (even though Christian which will most likely make them worthless in your eyes :/ ) explain what I attempted to say.
You have to consider the time in which the Bible was written. What do you th
ink people would do to a person who would have propagated evolution, bacteria, atoms, etc.
The Bible is written in a metaphorical language so even the most simple (and maybe most stupid...) human can understand.
In the Bible it's not important how complex the process of evolution was or how the universe was exactly created. The only thing that important is, is that God created it.
The Bible doesn't contradict the evolution, it just doesn't explain it either.
to prove it( that God Exists), all of you mustve heard about the Ramayan(a)( for you ppl). In It there is a part where they write Gods name on a heavy rock which floats on water.
Famous american scientists have researched that one the bottom on the sea rocks are found with the same God's name. They tested them and they floated.
Beat that.
And im talking bout bolders, fully checked, big heave bolders.
YOu know that was like in the 1st century,
and BTW lets say if you're living right now why will u die after some years?
And these "religions" are called sects. Sects usually take a part of the Bible and just interprete it how they like it. :-\ It's blasphemy...
I understand if you can't believe in God for some reason, but you have to admit there HAS TO be something that created the universe.
Christianity simply calls this reason "God" and believes, it is not random, but has a consciousness.
But the point is that there is nothing bad about believing in God.
It's incredible how Jesus' words were universal. You can take any time, any situation, any possible possiblity and if you listen to what he said, you will realize "Yes... that actually is right."
11 So he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
Even if God is just a lie, he has given hope to the world.
And he said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you yhat there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.
63 now the men who held Jesus mocked Him and beat Him. 64 And having blindfolded Him, they struck Him on the face and asked Him, saying: "Prophesy! Who is the one who struck You?"
There was a theory of atoms that existed at that time. I'm sure I could find Greek thinkers who spoke of something similar to evolution and bacteria.
In the late fifth century BC...The Bible was started to be written 1000 B.C. Also The hebrew folk didn't have any contact even quite some time after the late 5th century B.C.. God is not science. People wanted to know how everything was created, so the invented science. SCIENCE is the thing that is supposed to explain the Genesis, not God. As I already said in the other topic, if God would give us everything we want, then what sense would life have?!
how many people believe that? And what was the metaphor behind, say, Noah's Ark?
The Bible says that fruit bearing plants were created before fish. If this is a metaphor, it is an inaccurate one.
Yeah, that's not what you're doing at all!
Why?
Energy is a conserved quantity, meaning that it cannot be created or destroyed, but only converted from one form into another. Thus, the total energy of the universe always remains constant.So if it can't be created or destroyed, there has to be an origin as the universe wasn't existant for eternity, it is about 13.7 billion years old. Again, check wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe) if you don't believe me.
Believing in something that isn't real is harmful.
It's incredible how Jesus' words were universal. You can take any time, any situation, any possible possiblity and if you listen to what he said, you will realize "Yes... that actually is right."
But it is a false hope.
I have a Q.
Why does the bible never talk about dinosaurs? So if you say god made the world did he put the massive bones of dinosaurs in the ground to play a trick on us?
So did it happen like this?
-Dinosaurs born
-they die
-god makes Adam and Eeve
Nightwolf: Cite your sources. If the rocks float, why were they at the bottom of the sea?YOu know that was like in the 1st century, and BTW lets say if you're living right now why will u die after some years?
"The loch ness monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochness_monster) exists"
"no it doesn't"
"prove it doesn't exist?"
"can't, sry"
"owned"
If god is all perfect non-evil then how did he create evil.
Lol blizzard "prove he doesn't exist then"
I'm going to jail soon, cause, guilty until proven innocent.
Or, to put it another way, I could say there's a flying spaghetti monster. You can't prove that it DOESN'T exist, so does that mean it exists?
Nightwolf, it's still possible to cite just do a Wikipedia search or a Yahoo search or a Dogpile one. Don't bother with google unless you want porn instead.
EDIT: This is a moot argument :/
Prove that time exists. You can't prove it, yet it exists.No it doesn't.
Prove that time exists. You can't prove it, yet it exists.No it doesn't.
I have a Q.
Why does the bible never talk about dinosaurs? So if you say god made the world did he put the massive bones of dinosaurs in the ground to play a trick on us?
So did it happen like this?
-Dinosaurs born
-they die
-god makes Adam and Eeve
have some questions...
I god created the universe and everything init, who created god?
So many people claim that rock is the devils work?
then why is there christian rock bands?
How come when people are sick people pray and ask god for them to get better, and then the person dies and the people then go on to say that its what god wanted?
They go on acting like nothng happned but God ignores there prayers? WTF?
I dont mean to be disrespecting people. I mean Im the deputy head boy of a christian school so its not like Im being prejudice they are just questions that have always plauged me and it seems tsuno is answering godly questions so i thought i would ask
The Christian interpretation of Leviathan is often considered to be a demon or natural monster associated with Satan or the Devil, and held by some to be the same monster as Rahab (Isaiah 51:9).
Some biblical scholars considered Leviathan to represent the pre-existent forces of chaos. In Psalm 74:13-14 it says "it was You who drove back the sea with Your might, who smashed the heads of the monsters in the waters; it was You who crushed the heads of Leviathan, who left him as food for the creatures of the wilderness. (JPS edition)" God drove back the waters of the Earth (Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters." ([NAS])
Picture of Leviathan often found in grimoires, by an unknown artist.
Enlarge
Picture of Leviathan often found in grimoires, by an unknown artist.
Some interpreters suggest that Leviathan is a symbol of mankind in opposition to God, claiming that it and beasts mentioned in the books of Daniel and Revelation should be interpreted as metaphors. The usage of Leviathan in the Old Testament books (Isaiah 27:1) would seem to be a reference to a Semitic mythological beast mentioned in Ugaritic literature (of Ugarit, a city-state in North Syria). According to Canaanite myth, the Leviathan was an enemy of order in Creation and was slain by the Canaanite god Baal. The word Leviathan to the ancient Jews became synonymous with that which warred against God's kingdom. This especially included nations warring against Israel such as Assyria and Egypt. (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Old Testament,1985, SP Publications Inc.)
Leviathan also appears in the Apocryphal Book of Enoch, giving the following description of this monster's origins there mentioned as being female, as opposed to the male Behemoth:
And that day will two monsters be parted, one monster, a female named Leviathan in order to dwell in the abyss of the ocean over the fountains of water; and (the other), a male called Behemoth, which holds his chest in an invisible desert whose name is Dundayin, east of the garden of Eden. - 1 Enoch 60:7-8
Leviathan is also sometimes said to have been of the order of Seraphim. According to the writings of Father Sebastien Michaelis, Balberith, a demon who allegedly possessed Sister Madeleine at Aix-en-Provence, obligingly told the priest not only the other devils possessing the nun, but added the special saints whose function was to oppose them. Leviathan was one devil that was named and was said to tempt men into committing sacrilege. Its adversary was said to be St. Peter.
According to St. Thomas Aquinas, Leviathan is the demon of envy and the demon who is first in punishing the corresponding sinners. Some medieval authors, such as Collin de Plancy and Johann Weyer, considered Leviathan to be Grand Admiral of the maritime regions of Hell.
lol
My friend wrote a book were the angels breath fire...
oh, and in the part were it talks about the leviathan is long with scales, like a snake... CLICKS HERE NOW!!!
(http://bibleresources.bible.com/keywordsearchresults.php?keyword=leviathan&multiplemethod=all&version1=51&numpageresults=25&sortorder=bookorder)
Quote from: wikiIn the late fifth century BC...The Bible was started to be written 1000 B.C. Also The hebrew folk didn't have any contact even quite some time after the late 5th century B.C..
God is not science.
People wanted to know how everything was created, so the invented science. SCIENCE is the thing that is supposed to explain the Genesis, not God.
Also I said so even the most stupid human could understand it. Find one person with an IQ of 50 or lower and explain him what an atom is. Now explain him tell him there is a God who created everything. What do you think how he will react?
Quotehow many people believe that? And what was the metaphor behind, say, Noah's Ark?
I don't know what Metophor is behind Noah's Ark, how could I? Didn't I say, I haven't read the Bible?!
QuoteThe Bible says that fruit bearing plants were created before fish. If this is a metaphor, it is an inaccurate one.
[sarcasm]Oh, in the Bible is exactly written how plants slowly turned into fish? I didn't know that.[/sarcasm] If you didn't know, fish also breathe. Plants were first on earth, they created O2 out of C02, the water absorbed some of it due to diffusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion). AFTER these events, fish had something to breathe and could start to evolve.
QuoteYeah, that's not what you're doing at all!
And what exactly have I said different than just the entire Christianity?
QuoteWhy?
You've already had Physic classes? If yes, you should be able to recall this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy) here. I mean this part:Quote from: wikiEnergy is a conserved quantity, meaning that it cannot be created or destroyed, but only converted from one form into another. Thus, the total energy of the universe always remains constant.So if it can't be created or destroyed, there has to be an origin as the universe wasn't existant for eternity, it is about 13.7 billion years old. Again, check wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe) if you don't believe me.
QuoteBelieving in something that isn't real is harmful.
Prove that he doesn't exist then.
QuoteIt's incredible how Jesus' words were universal. You can take any time, any situation, any possible possiblity and if you listen to what he said, you will realize "Yes... that actually is right."
Erm, you have quoted that part, but there's nothing below it... >.<
11 So he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
QuoteBut it is a false hope.
Again, I tell you prove that it's false.
And how do you know he doesn't? Did you go out into the universe looked for God and haven't found him? Just because you can't percept electromagnetic waves, doesn't mean they don't exist.
Prove that time exists. You can't prove it, yet it exists.
No, I never said God does exist, I said there is no proof that he doesn't just like there is no proof that he does. You can't say something doesn't exist if it is beyond our understanding and possibilities to prove. Same works with Nessy there. We are not really in the position to prove its existence.
BTW, a flying spaghetti monster is irrational, it can't exist IN THIS UNIVERSE, because of the laws of physics we have here. That's already proof that it doesn't exist IN THIS UNIVERSE.
I don't think Nessy exists. Why? Do you really think it has survived for 65 million years? Meh. Although I can be wrong.
EDIT: All in all if you can't prove it doesn't exist, it's not wrong to believe in it. It's not your problem, so you don't have to go on other people's nerves because of it.
@JH: Oh, is it harmful if I believe Nessy exists and live on my life even though it doesn't?
There are a few reasons I don't follow my Christian Faith (I was born into it, but have rejected it)...
Reasons:-
1. Why the heck do people go to Church on a Sunday ?
2. Why do Christians wear the cross around their necks, thatās what killed their beloved Jesus...?
3. Why is there so many different versions of the Bible?...
But... I do think Jesus was a real person,
and yeah he may have thought he was the son of God... now I can give you a few reasons why he thought this:-
1. He had a mental problem like Scitsophrenea... he heard voices... and the power of positive thought from those that followed him helped make people feel better... combined mental projection has not been investigated enough, who knows if Jesus and his deciplines all concentrated their thoughts at one thing may be it had X-men like effects...
2. He had some decpiles that had over imaginative minds... no doubt through sleep deprivation, itās not like the had spring mattress and they had been on the run from Herod for some time...
3. May be Jesus was a Drug dealer, and his Disciples followed him for free hand outs and most of the time tripping their nuts off... and seeing Jesus do wonder-ful things... like feeding the 5,000 with fish and bread... may be he got them to smoke so weed 1st, and they all had the munchies and ate dirt and just so happened to be Hallucinating Jesus handing them Bread when all it was, was Mud... Could explain why Jesus Washed feet, may be he was collecting Fungal Spores to grind up into Acid like tablets...
I do however think there are beings walking by us, not of this dimension, I think they have no time barrier... just like Bacteria can't see us, we cant see them... May be once we die and our Energy is released we may be able to see them (Brain Death)...
dinosaurs and fossils
Arguement -
Angels can't breath fire.
Therefore Demons can't breath fire.
1. He had a mental problem like Scitsophrenea... he heard voices... and the power of positive thought from those that followed him helped make people feel better... combined mental projection has not been investigated enough, who knows if Jesus and his deciplines all concentrated their thoughts at one thing may be it had X-men like effects...
People with an IQ of 50 are retarded. So: is the Bible written for retarded people? If so, why are the metaphors sometimes incomprehensible. Also, what do you have to say about people who believe that the Bible is 100% factual? What about the people who believe that the Bible is partially factual?
So you are dmitting that the Old Testament was the product of isolated desert savages? That if they had contact with other, more intelligent cultures, they wouldn't have had this mythology?
Obviously you know nothing about evolutionary history. Plants were not "first" on Earth, they were contemporaneous with primitive animals (as well as the other kingdoms). Fruit are the products of flowering plants, which are the products of land plants. Flowering plants first made an appearance during the Cretaceous. Dinosaurs and mammals are not older than fish.
Dinosaurs and mammals are not older than fish.
You say that the Bible is entirely metaphorical. How many hundreds of millions believe otherwise?
Maybe you just don't want to see it.
11 So he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
Stop trying to make God into a personification of natural forces.
There is no evidence that he does, and science seems to get along fine without having to account for the divine.
Prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting Vega right now. You can't? It must be there, then.
Buy we can perceive EM waves. Where are the instruments that measure God?
We can observe the passage of events.
I have not yet observed God.
The fact that the workings of the universe operate exactly the same without a divine hand is proof.
So why can God?
If there was a large enough population to sustain a plesiosaur population for millions of years then they would be surfacing all the time and carcasses would wash up on the shore regularly.
Nobody who believes that the Lock Ness Monster exists thinks that it tells them how to live their lives.
Read it and get back to me.
Quote11 So he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."Yes, marrying another wife while your first wife is still alive is a big sin. Doesn't it say "Until death divorces us."? What do you think that comes from? Something like this should be in the Bible: "Marriage is a holy bound between a man and a woman.
EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".
EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".
You should kill your child if he strikes you
Women should be subjugated by their husbands
EDIT 2: REFERING TO DIVORCE -
If you divorce for stupid reasons (had an arguement) and get married, that is a sin.
There are certain reasons for getting divorced (continued adultry, assault,murder, etc.) that are understood.
[sarcasm]I have observed the effects that God has on the people. Did you?You have observed the effects that the belief in God has on people. The human mind is an amazing and powerful thing.
Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?I hope you were joking.
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".
You know it would be easy to give her a divorce first.
So it would be better to kill your wife first?
EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".
I'm simply going to say that, in the end, does it really matter? If Tsuno wants to believe in his God, then by all means let him do what he needs to do to get himself through his day. I don't believe God exists, but I'm also not going to try and pick at every flaw in the religion because I honestly don't think it would accomplish much of anything.
Okay, Tsuno believes in God, thats why he posted this.
All I-D topics debate on whether it is or not, on everyones point of view, so the thing youre saying the If Tsuno believes let him and dont flaw will make a useless waste out of I-D.
What if Heaven and Hell are the same place... like this world we are in now, to some its a Heaven and others a Hell...That's so irrational I punched myself.
Who's to say we have not been alive as some other being prior to now and this is our Heaven or Hell we are living now...
Well thats bollox really, but what if...???
The after life could be a mirror image of this, but depending on your mood depends on your experince...
Okay, Tsuno believes in God, thats why he posted this.
All I-D topics debate on whether it is or not, on everyones point of view, so the thing youre saying the If Tsuno believes let him and dont flaw will make a useless waste out of I-D.
That's so irrational I punched myself.
EDIT 2: REFERING TO DIVORCE -
If you divorce for stupid reasons (had an arguement) and get married, that is a sin.
There are certain reasons for getting divorced (continued adultry, assault,murder, etc.) that are understood.
When you get married, you and your wife (or vice versa) become one body, not physically, but spiritually. This is why divorce is so painful, your ripping one piece into two. You can try to tape pieces together, but they'll never be the same again.
Bringing up another issue (sort of). Since the big bang has pretty well been proven, why is it all of a sudden that Christians who said it never happened because God created everything are saying "Well, God caused the Big Bang.", when before they didn't believe it happened? This isn't the first time in Christianity we've seen this sort of thing happen. Things are twisted to fit their views every time, or something from the Bible just gets "overlooked".
How come this isn't believed in today? So Christians can pick and choose which parts of the Bible they believe in? I don't think it's supposed to work that way, that would be an insult to God.
In my school, we were taught divorce is a sin, period.Just like I said. I was also taught, divorce is a sin, it's even a very big one.
I'm simply going to say that, in the end, does it really matter? If Tsuno wants to believe in his God, then by all means let him do what he needs to do to get himself through his day. I don't believe God exists, but I'm also not going to try and pick at every flaw in the religion because I honestly don't think it would accomplish much of anything.
The same can be applied to Tsuno's situation. We can all sit here and argue with him constantly about whether God exists, but in the end he'll still believe in God no matter how the topic ends. That's one of the main reasons I feel religion is something that should never be debated. It's entirely based on belief systems, and there are too many unanswered questions to prove one side over another.
This really has nothing to do with the topic, I just thought it'd be interesting to share.
Nightwolf... Uh this is in ID, and I wouldn't call this topic a waste at all.thats what im trying to say
You guys can think what you want, but last time I checked, I'm perfect. So there!
Naw seriously, Sin is a concept born of ignorance and it's been a dangerous concept to boot. Hell this ignornce is why the spanish inquisition happened. and Why people were converted at sword pouint before that. Basaclly, I think Jesus was history's greatest Monster. One day, Mohammed wil usurp him, but it'll still take a while.
So, fuck you Jesus Christ. You aren't wise and you never will be. You deserve NONE of the praise you get. And well, you probably didn't exsist to boot.
Quit taking it personally. It was aimed at the religion, not at you. That's his opinion, let him have it.
Do you really think 12 different men who were living normal lives and never have met each other before would have given their lives for a lie? I don't think so.
Also, there are rules against flaming. They're not enforced as much in ID, but if it's off topic they can be.
Also, there are rules against flaming. They're not enforced as much in ID, but if it's off topic they can be.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT LET'S BAN FU FOR FLAMING GOD :V
@BoE - God's just as righteous in the old testament as in the new testament.
But I do take it personally. That's something you (Zypher) wouldn't understand. (You did say you were aetheist correct?)I was a Christian, and I learnt not to take that personally soon after coming on the Internet and meeting atheists.
Everybody on this forum who has a religion will agree, that one of the most painful things to read is someone dissing their god.
But I do take it personally. That's something you (Zypher) wouldn't understand. (You did say you were aetheist correct?)I was a Christian, and I learnt not to take that personally soon after coming on the Internet and meeting atheists.
Everybody on this forum who has a religion will agree, that one of the most painful things to read is someone dissing their god.
And Tsunokiette, you can't write incest on the family computer? :|
noah was middle eastern and would have had dark skin... so how are there white people today?
True that. That image he posted was horrifying.
what image?
True that. That image he posted was horrifying.
It was an image of the KKK whipping a black man, and the man was saying "I deserve this".Don't forget the house burning in the background, and the noose around a tree limb waiting for the black man.
how did 2 people = the millions today...
Adam means like men and Eve means something like mother(s) I think. It never were only 2 humans, Adam is the plural for man on hebrewic.
I always thought that hell represented the idea of being unable to move to a different or inability to move to a higher plane of life (i.e., limbo)
I heard that when you go to heaven you lose all memories of earth and what happened to you there, is this true?
Oh, and another thing... if you say you know that god is real because he spoke to you and millions of other and it can't be fake, because how could that many people fake together... then what about the other religions? did they fake talking to their god, all 4million+ of them...QuoteIf you have a large diet of fruit and vegetables, it can be sweet though
and you know this how? :tpg:
Basicly, we can't know.
My friend, WIll, dosen't believe in religion. I asked him why not, even when their are signs and books like the Quran and bible. He said that he believes a group of people must have made that as a joke. The worlds biggest prank is what he calss religion. I laughed so hard when he told me because well its a possiblity .
It's actually Agnostic.
Agnostic: A halfway point in between christian and athiest.So agnostics are half-Christian, half-atheist? Since when? It's not like Christianity is the only religion with a divinity.
I happen to be one of those as well, but more on the lines of many diffrent ones >_>...
Well, if you believe what the Bible says, then there can be no athiests at all.. They simply don't exist. The Bible says that man was created with a knoledge that there is a god. He can tell him/herself what he/she wishes to hear. But the Bible says that in their heart, everyone knows there is a god. :)
In the bible it tells you that a war will take place, which will last 7 years. This is a war between god and the devil. Why will it take god 7 years to kill the devil, when he could just "snap his fingers" and he would be gone, or dead, whatever god chose.
Well, if you believe what the Bible says, then there can be no athiests at all.. They simply don't exist. The Bible says that man was created with a knoledge that there is a god. He can tell him/herself what he/she wishes to hear. But the Bible says that in their heart, everyone knows there is a god. :)
In the bible it tells you that a war will take place, which will last 7 years. This is a war between god and the devil. Why will it take god 7 years to kill the devil, when he could just "snap his fingers" and he would be gone, or dead, whatever god chose.
One smite for you. I have posted at least 3 times in this thread that the Bible is metaphoric, not to mention how often the other members posted the same thing.
I was under the impression that when Ragnarok happens...
Oh wait, it won't :P
I was under the impression that when Ragnarok happens...
Oh wait, it won't :P
Okay thats it, once I'm dead I'm talking Odin into letting you into Valhalla. And I'm not doing it to be nice, I'll do it to piss you off.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3326292852590673568&q
Failure, lol. In his "proof"for his religion, he uses doctrine from the religion he's trying to prove.
@Zypher - If there is no God, why do people feel repulsed by the idea of a God and continue to argue against Him? If there really is not eternity it would be stupid to prove to someone God doesn't exist. It wouldn't matter in the long run.It's a debate. It's meant to exercise you intellectually, show you various perspectives and challenge your perspective.
That really didn't have much to do with my post. :tpg:
If more than half of the Bible is factual, why wouldn't the rest be?No book is 100% factual. This is such a poor argument, I mean really, just because part of a text is true does not necessitate the rest is, even if that part is 50%, or 60%, or 99.99999999% true!
Tsunokiette blindly believes the Bible based off of nothing but that he wants to, that he has faith that it's accurate.
Those of us who require proof for such things as Creation, the Flood, and various other biblical accounts will naturally be at odds and grate with those who don't.
And,QuoteIf more than half of the Bible is factual, why wouldn't the rest be?No book is 100% factual. This is such a poor argument, I mean really, just because part of a text is true does not necessitate the rest is, even if that part is 50%, or 60%, or 99.99999999% true!
You have to remember, this wasn't something someone wrote down, it's something many people over 1000's of years recorded.
Again I say. I've heard this line so many freaking times that it's bugging the hell out of me! They always go back to "it's in the bible so it's true!" to get out of any question! You asked a question they can't answer and they will go to that line. so now, I'm going to write a book about how cats invented cheese, and it will be true, because it's in a book.
For those that say that the Bible is just a prank.What? The Bible was written by ancient men looking for power and influence. Judaism is just another Middle Eastern religion, that has been constantly evolving since the beginning.
The Jews take their religion just as seriously as any religion takes their religion, I doubt they would blaspheme it like that.
if Noah was told to get 2 of each animal then why did he forget the dinosaurs?
if Noah was told to get 2 of each animal then why did he forget the dinosaurs?
This has to be the funniest post in the entire thread.
yeah a leaf eating dinosaur could not live with a sheep is a tiger could.
Yeah, a leaf eating dinosaur could not live with a sheep, even if a tiger could.
Ragnarok can't be true. It says EXACTLY what will happen during the Ragnarok. This is ridiculious. ::)
he says that dinosaurs were around 4004 years ago, because the bible said so. Why is that something christens always go to?
Person A "who made the world?"
Person B "god"
Person A "how do you know this?"
Person B "the bible said so."
And this "debate" is going nowhere! We are basing our comebacks on what we believe! So instead of combacks that have to do with the person's views it the speaker's views.
Person A- Likes to throw apples a lizards
Person B- Thinks apples explode when they hit something
Person A " I'm going to hit a lizard with an apple"
Person B "but that will kill it."
Person B beleives something that makes it hard to see the other person's point. Tsunokiette is going on what the bible says and it is clouding what you are saying, and you are going on what you were taught and that clouds what he is saying. So in the end we are blind people trying to lead each other trough a fog.
Well the old testament itself is chock full of factual recordings.
You have to remember, this wasn't something someone wrote down, it's something many people over 1000's of years recorded.
If more than half of the Bible is factual, why wouldn't the rest be?
*sigh* Ask for proof and I shall try to do better than last time lols.
No book is 100% factual. This is such a poor argument, I mean really, just because part of a text is true does not necessitate the rest is, even if that part is 50%, or 60%, or 99.99999999% true!
Plus theYou have to remember, this wasn't something someone wrote down, it's something many people over 1000's of years recorded.
is proof that the Bible got turned into many falsities. How many times do you think it was re-written and re-translated? And you know it was always changed because of the so many different views one can have on the events in the Bible. Most likely, it's all nothing more than a fairytale.
Faith is the blind device of fools. To have faith in something is to deny the inherant nature of it.
Saying that you have faith that god created somethig does not make it so. The idea of faith in a religion is that, because the god figure cannot be proved, you must have faith and accept it for it to save you after death. Therefore, through religion, relity has always been skewed. SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE BIBLE IS NOT REAL!!! You are expected to believe it through faith. If a second grader has been taught his entire life that god is real, he will undoubtedly believe in him. If he has never heard of god, he will not believe in him. he will not have "faith" that there is some walking miracle-maker who simply poofed man into existence. Faith is what makes men blind.
If you have had once faith and have lost it you can talk shit about faith as much as you want, but as long as have never believed, please don't.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3326292852590673568&qQuoteFailure, lol. In his "proof"for his religion, he uses doctrine from the religion he's trying to prove.I still want this guy to die.
If you have had once faith and have lost it you can talk shit about faith as much as you want, but as long as have never believed, please don't.
He did at one point. That was before I knew him.
I know it's getting annoying, but I say dinosaurs because I have never been given a good answer to that question.
I just went on a christian leaders campe and it made me think about god and all that...
I have now stoped believing.
I mean c'mon. Think about it. Its pretty much impossible. GOD pfft.
Then they turn around and say people were created by random chance. You ask them where the materials came from and they simply say "I don't know, they probably have been here forever." Excuses are made saying maybe aliens put the needed materials on earth. Okay, where did they come from?
Then they turn around and say people were created by random chance. You ask them where the materials came from and they simply say "I don't know, they probably have been here forever." Excuses are made saying maybe aliens put the needed materials on earth. Okay, where did they come from?
They created the building blocks for DNA (amino acids, it think) in a lab using, hydrogen and stuff, he hit it with lots of electricity, when the earth was young there was most likely a lost of lighting.
The things, methane, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen, all have been found on asteroids floating on deep space. These were formed during the big bang, the big bang, i have no idea. By saying: where did that come from, where did that come from? will eventually lead you to "I dont know" anyway.
I just went on a christian leaders campe and it made me think about god and all that...
I have now stoped believing.
I mean c'mon. Think about it. Its pretty much impossible. GOD pfft.
How so?
People say it's impossible for God to exist because the Bible says He was not created and that He was always there.
Then they turn around and say people were created by random chance. You ask them where the materials came from and they simply say "I don't know, they probably have been here forever." Excuses are made saying maybe aliens put the needed materials on earth. Okay, where did they come from?
The things, methane, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen, all have been found on asteroids floating on deep space. These were formed during the big bang, the big bang, i have no idea. By saying: where did that come from, where did that come from? will eventually lead you to "I dont know" anyway.
So, if he existed, where did god come from?
So, if he existed, where did god come from?
That's the point, you CAN'T use that arguement, because you can't answer it regarding the big bang either.
So, if he existed, where did god come from?
That's the point, you CAN'T use that arguement, because you can't answer it regarding the big bang either.
Another thing how come christians "God" doesn't have a name? I mean the egyptian Gods had them e.g "RAH" etc. The Greek "Gods" had "Zeus" and "Hercules" but christians are just "God"
PS: @Diablo - For all we know Heaven could be at the edge of the Universe. I'm pretty sure no human has made it that far.
It made not believe because there are those people who sit around and chant and praise another god, us christians get told that this is bad and all that stuff BUT watching at this camp its excatly what we do just for our god. We sit around and pray for something that isnt there, it cannot be felt, it cannot be seen.
Another thing, They say Jesus rose, right? by rising they mean levitated upwards???
If so where did he go? because us humans have "risen" you could say, in aeroplanes and found nothing of a heaven in the clouds, we have sent cameras to outer space and found nothing of heaven in other planets.
If christians are'nt alowed to drink, persay, then why was Jesus an alcoholic lol, not really, but int he bible he turned 4 one gallon drums of water to wine which calculates to about 700 bottles of wine? Now tell me that is not silly.
If there is a heaven then why, if you bring somebody back from the dead, nobody remembers it.
What makes us? how did brains, hearts, bones and all other organs get put together miraculously. Im so freaking confused. I mean we havent been able to create humans yet? So how can somebody from over 5 million years ago be able to create them.
Other thinfgs that I dont belive are stories about beasts, vampires, zombies, witches, dragons, wizards.
There is no possible explinaiton for these things, its like God and whatnot, I dont believe if there is no possible explination.
There should be a explination for everything...
I believe there was a man named Jesus that died on a cross
but I dont believe he was the son of "God".
I think in the future we created time machines (impossible) and a guy went back in time with other gizmos from the future and preformed "miracles" and when he went to pray alone he went back to the future to get more supplies.
Another thing how come christians "God" doesn't have a name? I mean the egyptian Gods had them e.g "RAH" etc. The Greek "Gods" had "Zeus" and "Hercules" but christians are just "God"
If you are a believer then thats cool, I have got nothing agaisnt you, aslong as you're personality is great I'll be your friend. I just won't be into "God" and what not.