Composers: What do you use?

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So I'm finding out that there's actually quite a few composers on this forum. More than I initially thought, anyway. So I wanted to know what everyone uses, mainly out of curiosity, but also to get some suggestions.

I use TabIt, because I started out on guitar and it was the first program I got. Sure, I can read standard notation, but I was really into guitar back then.  I still use it because of how much freedom it gives you. It lets you use the pitch bend and modulation whenever you want to, and however you want to. GuitarPro, for one, has a pitch bend and modulation feature, but TabIt lets you use them unrealistically, and I love that. :D It doesn't bind you to rules of rhythm or anything like that, it just lets you write and it's completely up to you to do it professionally. So if you don't know what you're doing, your song will sound like crap. For example, you could accidentally add a 1/4 of a beat into a measure (if you're an idiot :D ) and TabIt wouldn't correct you. I like that, because I can't even figure out how to change time signature mid-song in Sibelius.
Also, the other, more professional programs make you set everything up before hand. You choose your key, tempo, time signature, and instrument sets in the beginning, and it's a little difficult to add new instruments in or change time signatures and whatnot later on, so basically you have to know exactly what you're going to write BEFORE you write it. (Again, I'm saying this out of inexperience of Sibelius and GuitarPro, but that in itself gives TabIt another advantage: ridiculously easy of use. Especially for a person that started out on guitar.) Also, writing percussion parts in Sibelius and GuitarPro is an endurance trial through fire compared to doing in it TabIt. :o

But TabIt does have a few drawbacks. Much like in the way that TabIt will not make your song sound professional, YOU must do that yourself, TabIt also does nothing to make your song sound realistic. Again, that is something you must learn to do yourself. Both by using volume changes and mastering the art of bending to make things sound realistic, and taking into account the subtleties of real instruments, and also by getting a soundcard that has a good soundfont set. Right, TabIt has no RSE like GuitarPro does. It runs solely on the MIDI that you provide for it. This is the reason (pun) why I'm looking into other programs. Like Reason. My soundfont set is pretty decent, but it's not high-quality, and most people aren't able to look past the sound of the instruments in the song and listen to the writing itself unless they've also been in your situation. Also, even though you can make your song sound very professional in TabIt, the REAL professionals do not see TabIt as professional at all. I'm not going to get into a debate about this, but I can see why they think this, the major reason being TabIt is in tablature format, and has no standard notation format.

So I'm downloading Reason now, and I'm going to give that a try, because I've heard great things about it and what it can do for more modern-styled songs. What I may end up doing it writing in TabIt, exporting midi, and pumping it through Reason, but that all depends on how easy it is to write with Reason.

So, uh, what do you guys use?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 01:40:50 AM by HaloOfTheSun »

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I began with eJay Ibiza. It was more a messing around for fun than really good, but I began to actually like that. Later I got myself FruitLoops. This prog is more than great. You can make EVERYTHING, EVERY STYLE OF MUSIC and render it either to
« Last Edit: April 08, 2006, 08:23:53 PM by Blizzard »
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I use TabIt, and love it pretty much for the same reasons arlen does. What I make in it usually isn't actual guitar or rock stuff, more orchestral, but I like how even though TabIt is designed for guitar stuff, I can do my kinda thing anyway.

I've got no need to look for any other tool, seeing as I have the tools required to take the simple MIDI output from TabIt and make it sound awesome. I've wrote a guide answering most of the questions I was asked about it.

Poll Expanded ~

+Sticky, seeing as this is a general intrest thread.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 10:26:54 PM by Silverline »

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I started using Noteworthy Composer, which is better than most people think. If you can read standard notation anyway. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy and you can do almost anything you'd need to for a MIDI with it.

Now I use Finale, which does everything. Even if you can't read notation, you can just write in tabs, or a combination of both, or whatever. I'm actually teaching myself to read tabs this way: just write in notation, and then copy and paste it into tabs, and then I know what the notation would be if it were written in tabs. And you can do the pitch bends and modulation on instruments, like mentioned before. It also plays the music in a certain style, for example Rock. It will then play the song with all the
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I use TabIt, and love it pretty much for the same reasons arlen does. What I make in it usually isn't actual guitar or rock stuff, more orchestral, but I like how even though TabIt is designed for guitar stuff, I can do my kinda thing anyway.

I've got no need to look for any other tool, seeing as I have the tools required to take the simple MIDI output from TabIt and make it sound awesome. I've wrote a guide answering most of the questions I was asked about it.

Poll Expanded ~

+Sticky, seeing as this is a general intrest thread.
Heh, I was gonna add Anvil to the list, but I forgot if that's really what it was called. :o

Yeah, TabIt works for just about everything. I've used to it write orchestral, rock, experimental, metal, and even techno. <3 TabIt. :D
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 10:27:16 PM by Silverline »

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i cant call my self a composer cuss i havent finished a song but i use finale becuase it does correct your mistakes and u can switch the tone of things the tempo has well has the key signutere when ever u want.theres many versions of finale-finale notepade <<free,finale 2006<<300 dolors free on limewire,finale orchestra<<free update.
u can write proffesional sounding orchestra music with the exstension and its production will never stop it lets u print your sheet music nicley with title and all.U can create midis <<thats a bout it.)More notes than u could belive download it.


i recommend finale for whoever is serious about writing music

(finale has my vote)
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TabIt, and only TabIt. It's so intuitive, and there's a bunch you can do with it. I'd like to try other programs, but I probably wouldn't use any nearly as much.

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As it turns out, Reason works really well as a counter-part to a program like TabIt. All you have to do is do ALL the writing you're prepared to do, and with all the detail you're prepared to put in, in TabIt. Then export the midi, and pump it through Reason with some sweet soundfonts, and even add some crazy effects, if you want. I even found the work-around to the "doesn't recognize bends" problem some people on TabIt have complained about. You just have to set the max bend to 24 for each instrument, and then everything's perfecto.

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So I take it reason is a program for playing MIDIs through Soundfonts and allowing the use of VST effects?

I use SynthFont, which does pretty much that. SynthFont recognises modulation/bends perfectly =D

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Well so does Reason, but there's a small amount of in-between-work you have to do, first, and I guess most people just expect it to be done automatically for them. :)

Here's a question for you composers: does there exist anywhere on the vast internet a distorted guitar sample that doesn't suck ass?

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If you know how to use VST instruments, then the FL Slayer included with FruityLoops is actually pretty awesome.

You can pick a track in SynthFont and make it be played through a VSTi, so it's all good.

As for guitar soundfonts, I went through Hammersound's collection of guitar SFs once and didn't find anything particularly good =\

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Lol, Silver, just use the FL Slayer. This is a hell of a guitar sound generator.
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Yeah, I've been disappointed by hammersound as well. :x

I might as well just record the guitar parts myself, heh.

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Finale does all of those things too, much easier I might add.

I had a distorted guitar soundfont once that was great. It was quite large though; it was a recording of a Jackson. But, sadly, I don't have it any more. I could have swore I got it off of hammersound, but I'm thinking now I didn't. They have a Jackson guitar soundfont there too, but it's not as good as the one I found.
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I also use audacity its pertty good for recording things
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I use a real guitar its called a Chevelle.

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I have 2 guitars. An acoustic Seagull, and a Fender Telekaster Electric. Im awesome!!  :mrgreen:
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I use a real guitar its called a Chevelle.
Hmmm. This post seems quite inflammatory. As if you're saying "who needs computer programs, I write music on my real guitar."
So I guess I'll show you up.

Washburn W1-24 electric.

Worth about $400.

Some crappy squire acoustic.
You don't need a picture of that.
Worth about $80.

A Taylor Acoustic. Tilt your head.

My uncle sent it to me. He's a bit of a collector, the rich bastard. :O
He said he knew someone willing to pay $3000 for it. It sounds gorgeous. :cry:


And aside from those, I have ...

An SX 5-string, fretless bass.
An upright acoustic piano. (But who doesn't have a piano?)
And an old Casio keyboard, hehe.



but if that's not what you were implying, then you have my apologies.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 10:36:10 PM by arlenreyb »

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I play drums and my trusty harmonica. My brother has an original Fender Strat though.
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You are a very lucky man arlen. If I didn't have to move from apartment to apartment, I could have been one HELL of a musician at this point... :'(

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eh? My parents are divorced, and live 4 hours apart, and I've moved back and forth between TWO colleges. It didn't exactly stop me. :O

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Yes, but when you live in APARTMENTS you can't play at a reasonable volume, or have nice things like pianos...

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Arrow, that's no excuse. Get yourself a keyboard, USB guitar, and digital drum pad and you're set.

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...USB Guitar? I had completely forgotten about digi drum pads though, that is going on my purchase list now. ;D

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Well, just something to plug your guitar input to USB, so that you can just play through computer speakers and not have to lug an amp around.

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Ah, I see. Does it improve the sound quality? I have been running my guitar into my amp, then an audio dubbing cable (which for me is a swiss army knife, basically) out of the headphone jack and into the mic input. Will a USB input make the sound better or worse?

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You run it into the amp, and THEN into your computer? Definitely go USB then. The whole point is to NOT have to lug an amp around. Plus there's software that can do anything an amp will (read thread title for clues on where to find said software).

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Why USB ?_? I just use a standard guitar lead and a cheapo 25p converter to convert it to a standard mini plug on the other end. Then you can just put that in your mic / line-in and use software to add effects or distortion.

[edit] picture because I can

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Makes sense.

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Muchas gracias mi amigo, I'll look into that.

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Double posted because I have no idea of what else to do...Where can I get stuff like Tab-it and Finale, REGISTERED, (as in, do you have one I could steal from you?) and quickly? I'll wait on it to download for a pretty long time if I HAVE to, but I would rather not...

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« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 10:37:54 PM by Silverline »

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Double posted because I have no idea of what else to do...Where can I get stuff like Tab-it and Finale, REGISTERED, (as in, do you have one I could steal from you?) and quickly? I'll wait on it to download for a pretty long time if I HAVE to, but I would rather not...

Finale can easily be found if you look for a torrent. Although I got mine from Silverline. If you don't know how to read music, I'd stick with Tabit or something else though (Although you can just write everything in tabs on Finale if you wanted to.). Finale's pretty complicated for the casual user unfortunately. Or you might want to look into Sibelius, it's more user-friendly.

EDIT: What happened to the poll? *Adding poll.* Add any more you can think of if I've forgotten Silverline.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 01:35:19 AM by HaloOfTheSun »
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I use garage band which is not up there because i think your a bunch of retarded fucktards.

lol i do not really mean this, im just probly high off this pen cap, which has ink that i have been inhaling into my system.
Wow, this really enjoyable, even though I have short pains in my stomach.

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I use garage band which is not up there because i think your a bunch of retarded fucktards.

lol i do not really mean this, im just probly high off this pen cap, which has ink that i have been inhaling into my system.
Wow, this really enjoyable, even though I have short pains in my stomach.

Well, there's way too many to remember them all. lol, pen junkie.
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I got this thing called Synthfont. My hatred for MIDI has officially melted...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 10:38:27 PM by Silverline »

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Heh, I use synthfont.

You might want to find freeverb, a ree reverb VST effect and use that with synthfont.

Also, 2 awesome soundfonts I've uploaded HERE ~

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Sometimes I use the Fluid soundfont in that link. I remember you gave it to me a while back. It's pretty good. I use that or the SoftSynth that comes with Finale, which is pretty good as well. That is, when I'm writing music for games. Otherwise I use Garritan Personal Orchestra, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, and Virtual Drumline: 2.
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Thank you so much guys...are there any realistic...ish sounding guitar fonts out there? I figured I could use tabit, export to a midi, then use a font on it. In addition to THAT, I'm gonna try and use midis for my games now, so would anyone know where to get a good SNES font? I got this one by a guy called Setzer, but it's mostly for stuff like FF and Chrono Trigger...

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Check www.hammersound.net

Most of the stuff there is individual instrument fonts though, so unless you can load multiple soundfonts, it may not help out. There was one guitar there that sounded great, but I don't remember which it was.

Other than that, almost all of them suck. I have Garritan Jazz & Big Band, and it comes with an electric guitar, but it's jazz, so it's not very well suited for rock. But I'm going to try and find something to add distortion to it to see how it turns out.
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Thanks man, but the page doesn't seem to load for me...

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That did it. And thanks for the links, fluid and Tabit kick so much ass...

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You can make synthfont use samples from as many different soundfonts you like :3 sometimes when I record stuff I use different instruments from both SGM and Fluid.

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Well, I can't figure that out...how does one go about using multiple ofnts at once? I could only select one in the settings...does it involve that Vienna thing? And even if it doesn't, where would I find the Vienna Sound Font Editor?

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Thanks Silverline, I was wondering what that was for...

BTW, you may or may not care, but I think that that fluid soundfont was used for the Music in Mega Man X8...

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How do I do the slides and stuff in tabit? I read through the help file, and then I experimented, but to no avail...

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Slides are done by gradually bending the pitch of a single instrument down or up. Meh, I'll just tell you on MSN.

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Revoted.

TabIt, Finale, Reason, Noteworthy Composer, and Anvil Studio.


Speaking of Finale, how do I create tracks that play DIFFERENT instruments? I can make as many tracks as needed, but for some reason they all stay the same instrument. When I change one, I change all of them. It doesn't make any sense.
I mean, maybe some people can just compose without hearing the piece, but that's just not how I roll, B.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 06:42:06 PM by arlenreyb »

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It's midi right? Set the tracks to different channels, that should do it.

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It doesn't. Setting track 2 to channel 2 changes track 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and every other track you have created, to channel 2.

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Needs more HaloOfTheSun

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I think I may know the answer :O

In the Setup Wizard, make sure the "Use a separate channel for each staff" box is checked.

Also, in the Instrument List (Go to Window, then find "Instrument List"), make sure all the tracks are set to different instruments, and no I'm not talking about MIDI instruments.

For example, if Flute and Oboe are set to Flute, then no matter what channel you set Flute to, the Oboe will be set to that too, and they'll both either have a Flute or Oboe sound. You have to click the drop box under "Instruments", and select New Instrument, if they are all in fact the set to the same.

Check the pictures to clear up the confusing way I explained it.
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Oh my god. Why the hell does a notation program have a "Use a separate channel for each staff" option? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

edit: thx

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Where do I get Finale, I'm trying to get all of the good programs. (And any others that are good and not named Tabit or Synthfont, I have those all ready.)

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I went out and bought Finale because we get a discount here at Duquesne, and I was afraid that pirating it might screw me over in the end. Like, for example, it's probably against the school honor policy (which is very strong, here) since Finale is, like, endorsed by the school. And then there's the whole "what if I end up continuing to use it, and become the famous composer that stole finale?"

But for you, use torrents, search isohunt or mininova or whatever. Download them, burn the iso's to cd, and bam. (for the big ones)

Also, GOOGLE.

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Oh my god. Why the hell does a notation program have a "Use a separate channel for each staff" option? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

edit: thx

The only remotely plausible explanation I can come up with is for the Marching Percussion sounds. Typciall, percussion is on MIDI Channel 10, but in Finale, the Marching Percussion is on a different patch, and therefore not on channel 10. There are actually several channels, but I can't think of which they are.

Even still, it's very unnecessary.

And you're welcome.

Where do I get Finale, I'm trying to get all of the good programs. (And any others that are good and not named Tabit or Synthfont, I have those all ready.)

If you aren't wanting to hand out 300-600 dollars for it, then get utorrent and look for it.

Otherwise, go to someplace like www.academicsuperstore.com , and apply for academic pricing. (About $300)

They're shipping Finale 2007 right now, but I would wait. It's a bit new, so there's going to be a few minor bugs.

EDIT: lol arlen posted right before me.
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Google seems to be against me as of late, I have trouble finding anything of any worth...but okay, I'll do that. Thanks arlen.

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On a second, I'm also using Reason, but OpenMPT works easier imo.

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TabIt, thats the first thing i tried and i liked it very much, i wanna become a master in tabIt bfore i go on to some other thing.
Or if i go on to another thing..
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My vote is Fruityloops. (FL Studio 5 XXL!)

I have been composing like an absolute madman for about two years, and I've mastered it to the point where its really all I'll ever need for awhile.
Most of the other programs on that list, say for Reason, are based on MIDI, or don't have the freedom to create MP3 tracks that are incredibly complex and featuristic (one or two I have not heard of before, so spare me)

Alot of people can try to excuse it for a piece of cheap software (XXL edition costs 315$ mind you!), but its a godsend if you can master its features. After gathering tons of samples to my disposal, and knowing a few things about music theory and actually being a small-time producer, I think it costs me more not to have it.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 07:22:37 AM by Darkie »

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I've gotten myself FL 6 XXL from torrents and I continue seeding it. Of course cracked 'n' all... :=

I think the poll should be extended with Soundforge, CuBase and Steinberg as they are TEH OLDSKOOL TOOLZ.
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Expanding my vote to  TabIt, Finale, Sibelius, Reason, Anvil, AND Garageband, because Garageband is pretty sick.



Oh and sure, Frootyloops is great for making music with neat sound effects and such, but if you're a real composer, and compose for real instruments (and not all synth instruments) then a program that uses standard notation is definitely the more professional and accepted format. Hell, these days, finale's .mus file is actually an accepted medium of music, along side mp3s and midis. And the reason for all of this is, to actually be a good composer, you have to take into account what instruments can and cannot do, and you have to make it so musicians can actually read and perform your piece the way you want it performed. And most musicians read standard notation.

Because come on. I'm not gonna be playing any of the symphonies I write myself. Conducting, maybe, but...

Yeah, I use TabIt and Finale most of the time, now.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 08:44:01 PM by arlenreyb »

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I still haven't used anything but TabIt. My poor ol' 600MHz processor couldn't handle anything else.

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I don't have all of those programs on MY computer. The music labs have a ton of software on them, though, and that's where I use Garageband and Sibelius.

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Synth is good for alot of things, but I never use synths to substitute instruments.
Whenever I want to use instruments with Fruityloops, I download soundfonts.
Problem solved. =)

...
I don't think Garageband is really all that great. My opinion.

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Yeah, but do you know the range of a violin? The different sounds of a flute or bassoon? The different playing techniques of a string section?

Does Frootyloops?

Finale does, with the GPO add on (That Halo seems to be rather fond of).

That's all I'm saying.


Also, soundfonts are MIDI, you know. So, yeah, that's MIDI-based.

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I've used FL before and I don't like it. It encourages the repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, loop, loop, loop, start over but with another repeating thing over the top, go again, go again, go again, etc type of music I really don't like. It even has a thing where it'll just slap in random notes for you.

My brother uses it and every time he sends me something he's made in it, all he wants to know about it how it sounds with fancy synths and electronic beeps and stuff. When I send him stuff I make, I want opinions on how it's composed.

FL is great for that type of music, sure. But it bores me. But when you think of "respected" music, you don't think THUD THUD THUD THUD LOOP LOOP~

[edit] what he said^

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Yeah, sorry if I came off as a little rude, but it kinda burns me when people say "I'M A COMPOSER THAT ONLY USES FRUITY LOOPS! :V"

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I've used FL before and I don't like it. It encourages the repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, loop, loop, loop, start over but with another repeating thing over the top, go again, go again, go again, etc type of music I really don't like. It even has a thing where it'll just slap in random notes for you.

My brother uses it and every time he sends me something he's made in it, all he wants to know about it how it sounds with fancy synths and electronic beeps and stuff. When I send him stuff I make, I want opinions on how it's composed.

FL is great for that type of music, sure. But it bores me. But when you think of "respected" music, you don't think THUD THUD THUD THUD LOOP LOOP~

[edit] what he said^

I still think your brother's stuff is excellent.

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Most of the other programs on that list, say for Reason, are based on MIDI, or don't have the freedom to create MP3 tracks that are incredibly complex and featuristic (one or two I have not heard of before, so spare me)

I would have to disagree with you there, considering experience I've had with some of these programs. Some, yes, but not most. You are correct that most are based on MIDI, but that doesn't mean they aren't soundfont compatible, or don't have the capacity to create MP3's.

Personally, I HATE Fruityloops.

I can't say you are someone who fits into the following category, of course, so don't get bent out of shape, but it seems most people who use Fruityloops have no idea what they're doing, which is a big reason it's frowned upon in the music community. It doesn't require you to be creative; only to select a lot of preset things and *poof* a "song" is created, which is why FL is not accepted very well in the music community, because you don't have to know anything to make a song; it does it for you. What's the point in that?

Now, that's not entirely true of everyone who uses it, of course. However, it's also more suited for techno, hip-hop, etc.

In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I would also have to say (and those that use TabIt, Finale, or Noteworthy Composer will surely agree with me here), that you can do much more with those programs than with Fruityloops, provided you're familiar with the program.

I don't like tabs, so I don't use TabIt, but I know several members here do, and they're very talented (arlen, Silverline in particular), and they seem to know they program very well, and they get very creative with it. Someone may have to correct me here, but yes, you have to record the mp3's yourself... and I'm not sure if it's soundfont compatible, but that's all just an extra step, so it's not that big of a deal.

I personally use Finale. People are always saying how complicated everything is, and it's too hard to use, and the list goes on and on of complaints, but it's not really that bad. It takes a bit to get used to because it's different than other standard notation programs, but it offers more possibilities than any other program out there, except maybe Sibelius, although I haven't used that so I'm not sure, just what I've heard. With Finale I can save songs as mp3 or a .wav or MIDI, but usually I just record the mp3 myself. I can also make complex rhythms that just aren't possible in other programs. Yes, that is true, everyone always argues this point, but it's true. I'm not aware of any program other than Sibelius that can notate quintuplets, septuplets, and other complex triplet forms. There's probably a way to do it in TabIt, but then it'd be to hard to read in tabs, so it'd be pointless.

As for Noteworthy Composer, well.. for someone who used it for a year, I know it has its faults, but I also know it's a pretty decent program. It gets a lot of crap, but if you know standard notation, then it's on the same level as TabIt. And it is soundfont compatible at least.

Myriad is supposedly pretty decent, and it seems to be gaining popularity slowly but surely, and Sibelius is growing in popularity as the alternative to Finale, yet it still barely offers as much, but still a good program.

Again, I'm not trying to say you're not good at what you do because you use Fruityloops, I'm just expressing that I completely disagree with that one statement, heh. Nearly any one of these programs can be great if you have enough know-how with them.

Yeah, but do you know the range of a violin? The different sounds of a flute or bassoon? The different playing techniques of a string section?

Does Frootyloops?

Finale does, with the GPO add on (That Halo seems to be rather fond of).

That's all I'm saying.


Also, soundfonts are MIDI, you know. So, yeah, that's MIDI-based.

You better believe it lol. And the full version of GPO is even better. Finale also has the "Check range" feature.
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I don't like tabs, so I don't use TabIt, but I know several members here do, and they're very talented (arlen, Silverline in particular), and they seem to know they program very well, and they get very creative with it. Someone may have to correct me here, but yes, you have to record the mp3's yourself... and I'm not sure if it's soundfont compatible, but that's all just an extra step, so it's not that big of a deal.

I just export the tab as MIDI and run it through SynthFont, which is an excellent program despite the fact that it's nagware.

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OR.

You can download MidiYoke, and set it up so your MIDI based composition software runs through another program like, say, Reason. Now I'm composing in TabIt with quality sounds from Reason.

And if I want to make an mp3 out of it, I just export the MIDI, import it into Reason, reconnect the tracks to the soundfont patches blahbalblah it's actually very easy and BAM I have an mp3 that sounds really cool.


There's a downside to this, though, and that's that Reason's stock soundfonts aren't really all that great, unless you're messing around with synths (in which case it's fantastic). :(

But there's tons of other ones out there to download and use.

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Can you apply individual soundfonts with this? I would love that.

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Of course!

The NN-XT sampler device lets you load soundfonts of any sort, individually, (i.e. per instrument) even the ones from your stock midi card found in your Window -> System32 folder. All you need to know is where to find it.

Like, you know, you make one NN-XT for your first guitar, one NN-XT for your drums, etc.... and each one lets you choose exactly what soundfont or whatever you want to call it to use.



edit: And then you can apply effects and crap like that, I guess. I haven't messed around with the effects too much, yet.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 09:37:05 PM by arlenreyb »

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Alright. Free program?

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haha no


But you can find it on isohunt.com


MIdiYoke is free, though. Just google it.

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Yeah, but do you know the range of a violin? The different sounds of a flute or bassoon? The different playing techniques of a string section?

Does Frootyloops?

Finale does, with the GPO add on (That Halo seems to be rather fond of).

That's all I'm saying.


Also, soundfonts are MIDI, you know. So, yeah, that's MIDI-based.

Correction.
   Soundfonts are not MIDI. They are compressed soundbytes/wave files. They CAN be triggered with the use of MIDI ports, but they themselves are not MIDI. They are taken from actual sounds and recordings.

http://www.samplecraze.com/page.php?xPage=soundfonts.html

...
Perhaps I misunderstood you as far as 'real composing'.
In that case, by all means, I would use Finale for notating the music.
... I was just convinced this topic was about 'gaming' and 'digital music'. <--(of which, in THAT case, I would prefer Fruityloops)
My apoligies.

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I suppose you're technically right, since general MIDI isn't commonly made with real instruments. It made by taking a perfect sound wave (a sine wave, I believe) and modulating it's qualities to produce a sound "kinda like the real thing." So, yeah, most soundfonts that you would pay for are taken from real recordings, but it's still played through *drumroll* MIDI.

Are you using soundfonts? If so, guess what, you're using MIDI.

That's what I meant.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 09:50:54 PM by arlenreyb »

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Alright, I have Yoke installed. Where do I access that NN-XT thing?

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I run out from tabit



Through a virtual MIDI cable into a synth I use:



MIDI Yoke would work the same, though I just use the virtual MIDI cable that that synth installs. This thing basically just takes the MIDI out from TabIt and plays it through the soundfont I've loaded on it. It has loads of other advanced options but I never use them. Pretty much all my mp3s come out of this thing. I only use synthfont if I want to use more than one soundfont for a song.

Also, you should be able to run it zypher. I played / recorded most of These in realtime when I was on a PIII 533Mhz. Though if I tried to use too many effects, it started to lag. Erghk.

I use 2 sounfonts, SGM and Fluid R3, both of which I have uploaded somewhere. I also have a ridiculously high quality 1.6GB (!) soundfont, which I'm afraid you have no hope of using ;-;. I've yet to use the whopper >_>

You can download the synth thing Here, though it's not free.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 10:44:17 PM by Silverline »

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Well, first of all


Set TabIt's MIDI out to MidiYoke 1.
In reason, go to Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced MIDI settings. Set Midi IN (Bus A) to MidiYoke 1.


Then in reason, somewhere in the empty space, right click and select NN-XT Advanced Sampler. Poof, it should appear. Name it according to the instrument that's on channel 1 in tabit. (the first track, unless it's a drumset)
Don't choose a sample yet.
At the very top of the rack, there should be a "MIDI in Device." This is where you set the channels to match those in TabIt.
Set channel 1 to the NN-XT sampler you just renamed.

Play TabIt.

Go back to reason and choose a sample by choosing "Init Patch." (Look in "All Instrument Patches.")


Also, if you want bends to work right (so few on TabIt forums could figure this one out) click the right-faceing arrow in the bottom left of the NN-XT sampler. It should expand.
Right click in the blue screen and select All Zones.
Just below the center of the blue screen, there's a place to adjust pitch bend (it says "pitch" hurr). Move it up to 24.


Yeah. lol.

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Oh. I can't run Reason on this computer. Damn.

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Every time I download Fluid R3 I can't use it because it says it's corrupted.

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Nah, it's not that. I just don't have the specs for it.

600MHz processor
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Like, maybe 500mb left on my hard drive

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I agree with the fact that FruityLoops is not suited for real composers. In fact, there are major differences between "real" music and "electronic" music. For example you don't have to make the sound on various frequencies harder, because the song is too blurry and sounds get nearly lost. It's a completely different structure of making music.

@Halo: I understand if you don't like FL, but saying that making good music with FL is the same as saying making good music with Finale is easy. No music style to make is easy. Sure, you CAN make songs in each, but without putting effort into it and without a lot of practice, your songs will be mediocre in the best case. FL might rely more on synth, true, but that doesn't make it worse. It has tons of effects for precise tweaking of each sound and the newer versions even support putting notes not only at predefined places, but as good as anywhere on the playlist. Also you can use real sounds in FL without any problems.

But as I said, FL is most probably not meant for composers, but for hobby musicians, such as me, who think they can make a better Techno/Trance/Rap etc. song than the commercials. Funniest thing is, you actually CAN make better music than most of them with enough practice and effort. I could give you some Trance songs and some of mine and just delete the names. I think you couldn't tell the difference and would think the ones I made are not mine. ;)

All in all, electronic music is completely different from real music. I realised that just a few days ago when I was working on one of my songs. I seriously doubt, you have to often tweak the frequencies with an equalizer. I don't mean you don't use it, I mean you don't have to turn on a graphic analyzer for frequencies and kill a few of the frequenices from a sound so others don't get overtuned by its frequency spectrum. But I might be wrong, since I don't know how people compose, so tell me if I am. (^_^')

I've been using FL for over 3 years now (I haven't nearly touched for a year, BTW... -_- ), yet I STILL don't know all of its features and possibilities.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2006, 12:44:49 PM by Blizzard »
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As far as it goes for me, it's composition first, worry about EQ when people are actually performing it, or it's being recorded, later.

Well, of course, you take into consideration dynamics (volume) when you write, and stuff like that, but really, mixing and tweaking equalizers usually comes after the song is written and recorded.


In our composition class, we're being taught NOT to rely on MIDI or computer playback when we write, because half the time, if you don't know what you're doing, what you write in finale isn't really how someone else is going to play it if they read your score. That's what I was talking about with the whole "range of the violin, tambre of the flute" thing. You have to know in your head what it will sound like, because the computer playback is not accurate to how it should really sound.

But that's a traditional composers point of view, I suppose.

So yeah, compositional elements first, audio elements second.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2006, 03:09:44 PM by arlenreyb »

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Ah, I see...
Well, FL is more for meant to make the final product. It's not for writing music like Finale, it's for producing it.
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I use Cakewalk for notation, and then I run through SynthFont for the samples. I like it just fine.

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That's what I actually look like, for real. Ugly.
I also use Tabit, along with Synthfont so it doesn't sound too[/i bad. I just started learning what I need to know yesterday and today, so I'm considered a NOOB at it, but I'm getting better, and fast. I've just been experimenting with instruments and such. Hopefully people will eventually like my style of writing!
*various flatulence*

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I hope these italics make my post look cooler.

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I hope you realize he just closed the italics tag incorrectly and originally only meant for the word "too" to be in italics.

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Of course. That's why I'm teasing him about it.

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Hey guys, guess what?

I just got back from a music tech seminar where the assistant dean of guitar basically bashed people that use loops to compose for 50 minutes straight.


He was all like "you didn't actually compose anything because you're just using someone else's work (the loops) and arranging them!"

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Haha, I thought that said "assistant clean," which brought forth a funny image of Mr. Clean as a drill sergeant.

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where can I get this loops sounds fun.

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Lol, I make my loops myself, I never use external ones. :D It ain't fun that way. If you want a program with done loops, get an e-Jay. I used one and it is very limited, exactly because you have to use the prerendered loops and can't create own ones.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 12:24:44 PM by Blizzard »
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omg you postedin3d haxxxxxxxxxxx

And I support bashing Loopers.

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Grrrg, I just started using Finale songmaker, had both songmaker and notepad open (for reference to re-write music) and songmaker errors. Now I've got to redownload it. -_- This time I'm printing the music and writing from a hard copy.
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Whoever thinks that electronica is fake and music that isn't is real should be shot. Actually no, I'd rather them murdered brutally.

I've been using FL for a year now, my pirated copy of 5 XXL... decided if I start something like this at the age of 13 I'll learn quicker. And of course it's been a trial and error process but I've gotten way better at it, it's amazing just how much.

Quote
Lol, I make my loops myself, I never use external ones.  It ain't fun that way.

Well... you wouldn't kill me if I said I use the default plugins, downloaded soundfonts and the usual stuff you find in "Packs > Dance" now would you? Besides even if you use a default loop in the dance area you can still edit it to make it sound different that what you'd use them for. I was told by someone to never use a preset on FL (as in preset effects, plugins) and I agree, always mess around a bit, tweak with the knobs - experiment and you'll find that some stuff you can make out of them is really amazing (this excludes DX10 Tinkle, that synth is pure pwnage - I haven't been able to think of anything to make where it fits though, besides my latest IDM Experiment).

I don't know any but real composers use FL, but more people tend to go toward Reason (I so badly want this).

Quote
He was all like "you didn't actually compose anything because you're just using someone else's work (the loops) and arranging them!"

The same can be said for someone who plays a guitar they never made. Can't it? Unless he means loops that are actually long, like a piano melody and stuff like that. Then my guitar comment is void.

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I've been using FL for over 3 years now (I haven't nearly touched for a year, BTW... -_- ), yet I STILL don't know all of its features and possibilities.

I've learnt so much within one year my head feels like it will explode - finally my stuff is starting to make me say: "Yeah... I really like that."

And anyone who uses FL doesn't use it to loop loops. But to use the synths. Am I right? Besides FL has some really good effects, combinations are endless.

I suppose I'm new to this all with only a year of experience, but my caregroup teacher sure likes the program.

EDIT:

Bought a keyboard teaching myself how to play... I want a MIDI cord or whatever the thing is to connect it to the PC though.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 04:08:00 PM by ataraxy2 »

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Whoever thinks that electronica is fake and music that isn't is real should be shot. Actually no, I'd rather them murdered brutally.

Lol, I agree. Electronic music has as much effort put in as conventional music.

decided if I start something like this at the age of 13 I'll learn quicker.

You lucky bastard. ;) You do know that younger people can learn faster, do you? ;) I started out with about 16. It's been over 4 years now, wow...

Quote
Lol, I make my loops myself, I never use external ones.  It ain't fun that way.

Well... you wouldn't kill me if I said I use the default plugins, downloaded soundfonts and the usual stuff you find in "Packs > Dance" now would you? Besides even if you use a default loop in the dance area you can still edit it to make it sound different that what you'd use them for. I was told by someone to never use a preset on FL (as in preset effects, plugins) and I agree, always mess around a bit, tweak with the knobs - experiment and you'll find that some stuff you can make out of them is really amazing (this excludes DX10 Tinkle, that synth is pure pwnage - I haven't been able to think of anything to make where it fits though, besides my latest IDM Experiment).

Oh no, I DO use different sounds from the package and I DO use external sounds, but I don't use external loops.

Quote
I've been using FL for over 3 years now (I haven't nearly touched for a year, BTW... -_- ), yet I STILL don't know all of its features and possibilities.

I've learnt so much within one year my head feels like it will explode - finally my stuff is starting to make me say: "Yeah... I really like that."

And anyone who uses FL doesn't use it to loop loops. But to use the synths. Am I right? Besides FL has some really good effects, combinations are endless.

Totally. FL is great for making your own music and producing it. :) There should be a topic in Creativty Outlet with a collection of my songs. :)

EDIT:

Lol, here: http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,9814.0.html
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 04:22:17 PM by Blizzard »
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Blizzard you really seem like a cool person.  :) And you being a cool person who uses FL ^^. Anyway, I originally joined these forums for XP - I know my XP goals will never happen, but it's great to know that there are actually likable people on the forums (if you've ever been on CoN, EoFF, IMDb then you'll understand me so well).

Quote
You lucky bastard.  You do know that younger people can learn faster, do you?

I don't know... what I've made seems rushed (It isn't, it just used to have bad sound quality, that's a problem with me on FL). And as for that I hope you're right - and seriously the amount of stuff I've learnt is incredible - I quit it for ages when I felt like I was getting nowhere... then came back to learn heaps. I was like WTF! WTF!

Gonna look at your songs now! ;D Not into the Techno/Trance type songs used to be (read: DDR, ain't played THAT in a while, gotta get around to playing tens!)(depending on what people think t/t is, most mainstream freaks have no clue) I am into IDM though :) And a little of NIN, but they are Industrial IDM so. ANYWAY *shuts up and listens*

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I am more a Trance type. Progressive, Goa, Hardtrance etc. :) Fact is, you have to put a lot of effort into that, before you start getting good results. I have made over 100 songs for now and only 20~30 really are good.
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I've made 51 this year... a fair few are unfinished and plenty of them are shorties and/or just melodies I loved that couldn't think of how to expand on, many are experimental and me learning: advice from my favourite artist: "Even if you don't like it at the time, render it anyway - one day you might." Unfortunetely I read that AFTER I deleted something that months later I regretted ::) - some are weird remixes to songs like this type of thing...

http://www2.planet-mu.com/media/discography/ziq030_15_hi.mp3

Whilst not all are serious my effort is usually the same... if you've ever heard: "He Drinks Tequila, She Talks Dirty in Spanish" and "The APL Song" I'm proud to say I ****ed them right up.  ;)

:o I just looked through my collection and found an archived Sandstorm remix. (See, I don't even remember some of the stuff I make).

EDIT:

Listened to a song of yours "Time is Running Out (Right Now)" - I like FX_EH too.

And on a completely un-related note I can now add and take REP. And the + and - is ugly as. I was expecting a nice shinning green + and a red (but still shiny) -!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 04:51:26 PM by ataraxy2 »

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I'm too lazy to put images in there ;9 It'd actually be alot of work, seeing as its like hard-coded into SMF to use text ~_~

Also, you should start a thread for your stuff =)

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Also, you should start a thread for your stuff =)

I presume this was intended for me. Otherwise feel free to make me feel like an idiot, ain't felt like one in awhile... :)

Oh heavens no! Only I like my stuff! And er... I'm a little inexperienced *embarassed*. Besides my WWW link leads to my stuff anyway, so if you're curious click - most of the ones at the top are better than the bottom ones.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 05:38:24 PM by ataraxy2 »

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I would love to see Halo and Blizzard collaborate on something. You know, where Halo writes some arrangement and Blizzard adds some synths and beats to it.

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I tried collaborating with someone, and it failed. We made a really depressing melody though. Most collaborations always screw up in the Electronica genre and it's understanding why...

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I have remixed Sandstorm like 3 times, lol! The first Mix was kinda crap, the second RMX was not that bad, but it wasn't good either. Now the last one is kinda ok.

I would love to see Halo and Blizzard collaborate on something. You know, where Halo writes some arrangement and Blizzard adds some synths and beats to it.

http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,9842.0.html

The thread died so far... (-_-')
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Aww... that's actually really sad Blizz. Remixes are fun, they work charms! I remixed a song my friend made (Orgasmix) - I think I uploaded on "my link" but I'm not sure... checks. It's rather simple but still cool. (if it isn't there I'm going to upload now, regardless).

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When you post your music, I will listen to it. ;D Can't wait! ;D
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You know what I came to realize, recently? It's the reason why programs like Sibelius and Finale bother me so much, and why I love TabIt so much.

In Finale and Sibelius, you can fuck up your entire song just by clicking in the wrong place. You could move a note by accident, or add one by accident, or even remove an entire section just by clicking. It makes everything seem so ... volatile, and makes me uneasy. GuitarPro is like this, too.

I like to be relaxed when I write, which is why TabIt kicks ass. You can click anywhere on the input screen and you won't change a damn thing aside from where playback starts.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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You'd only move a note on accident if you had the Repitch Tool active, and you'd only erase something if you had the Eraser, of the Mass Select and pressed backspace. Besides, if you DID somehow mess something up, that's what Ctrl. + Z is for.

Then again, if you hated using the mouse so much in writing music, you can use the keyboard in Finale as well. It's quicker actually.
:tinysmile:

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I use a MIDI controller, personally.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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Aha.

No doubt TabIt is better for Rock-ish type songs as well. Finale interprets that kind of style strangely.
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Well the new FL 7 is out. :P I got the demo, can't find a crack from my sources. So... I'll just have to wait.  >:(

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OMG, already? What are they doing? Adding like 2 features and upgrade the version?!
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Haha, I was about to post something similar.

I remember seeing FL 4 originally, then later used FL 5 and was like, uh, what's different? I see they changed the background, that looks to be about it.

The FL 6 came along and it was the same old thing =/

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Yeah. I remember reading the "What's new" file of 4.01, it said "From 3.5 to 4.0? Don't ask me why..."

FL6 has like a dozen more features than the old 4.51. ::)
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I thought 6 was a good improvement over 5, I really liked the extra effects, and just how much more presentable it was. But... other than that I don't think it is that different, apart from having Wasp XT which I love.

The new features are probably mainly bug fixes, but I played the demo and it looks... er... uglier. But I suppose it's nothing like ACID. And it has two new EQ's (again), a 'Love Philter', Edison (audio editor). Reading the What's New now it looks like they've done mainly bugs...

Oh well, I was messing around with the demo and made something I liked. How stupid of me. I'll just have to resist the urge to use that new EQ (not that I know how to use it anyway :P).

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Of cource there were several new updates from 4.0, but I think it's not enough for an upgrade of 3 versions. 2 would be too much, but even 3?
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I ought to try out some of these, but I've been pretty lax in terms of writing lately. No inspiration =/

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Okay, guys!

I have the program (TaBit). I know how to use it. But now I need to learn to compose.

I would like to know what you think. Where should one get started and what should the person try. Rather and randomly adding notes, I want to actually learn how to compose with more than one track and different instruments. What helps you guys in this, or how did you learn when you got started?

Any tips, trick, anything, is truly appreciated.

Thank you!

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Ooooooonnn my way!

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Personally, I think your first step should be to delete tabit from your computer, and learn a notation program like Finale or Cakewalk. Tabit is designed for guitar, and is kind of fudged into writing full scores. You would do yourself much more of a service to not waste time learning the intricacies of tabit and move on to something bigger and more comprehensive.

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Unless her instrument is the guitar.

Lol, a girl playing guitar. How silly.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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Rather and randomly adding notes, I want to actually learn how to compose with more than one track and different instruments.

Are you done now?

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Your post confuses me. I can't figure out who it's addressed to. It might be addressed to her, but ... why would you even say something like that to her? It's completely unwarranted, even if you took it as an insult, and if you didn't, it's still, like, pointless really. Is she done with ... what, learning how to compose?

Which leads me to believe it's directed at me, but that doesn't make sense either, because TabIt has more than one track and different instruments. Unless you were talking about, like, writing for other instruments, like knowing the range of a violin or the various tambres of the flute. The range of a violin can be emulated easily in TabIt. It's a stringed instrument, after all. A violin's tuned to G D A E. It's easy to do. Also, Finale won't tell you when you're out of an instruments' range. Neither will TabIt, really, so there's not much of a difference there, really.
And the whole tambre thing doesn't really apply at all. MIDI is MIDI.
And actually writing for the instrument comes from experience, and the format you use to write really doesn't make any difference.

But hey, whatever, it all comes down to which one you're more comfortable with. I'm more comfortable with TabIt.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 11:57:41 PM by arl »

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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The first thing I will say is this: I know not a thing about music theory.
Second, I would like to know what is the difference between TaBit and the programs you suggest.
Third, I know many friends who begin with such programs, and haven't had problems. If they can, why can't I?
Although yes, I get confused with things such as choosing the number of strings, etc, I think I understand the basics. I have had TaBit for months. I am not just someone who suddenly decided to download it and start playing with it...
I have another tablature program, more complex than TaBit. I won't use it because of that. It's called Guitar Pro, and I've listened to songs composed with it. They sound really well. GP has lots of instruments to choose from. As well as TaBit, I believe?

And what am I supposed to be done with? :/

A bit more of information on Cakewalk or Finale would be appreciated. Or I can just google it.

Thank you, Holkeye and ARL. ^^

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Tabit uses guitar tabs as input of notes. Cakewalk and Finale use standard notation, and have a piano roll, which is a virtual keyboard. Cakewalk also has a sequencing mode, a mixer board, and simple key and meter change options. Tabit is for guitars, and it may be easier for the people that are used to it, but what I'm saying is if you are just starting, better to learn on one of those than tabit. Notation isn't hard to learn. When I first started I didn't know a thing about music theory either, and after trial and error, and a bit of internet reference, I like to think I'm pretty good at composing.

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Tabit can be used to make full scores too, i've heard many good tabs. But yes, i agree its MAINLY for the guitar, but others toooooooo
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Tabit is for guitars
its MAINLY for the guitar

No it's not, it simply uses the tablature method of inputting notes. I think maybe what holk is getting at is in the music world, knowing standard notation might get you further than having your music in tablature form.

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I like playing rocky roll on Fruit Loop XD

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I'm sorry, but I'm sticking with that it is mainly for guitars. That is what tabs were designed for in the first place.

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There is no such thing as piccolo tabs, or french horn tabs.

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Also, Finale won't tell you when you're out of an instruments' range.

Yes it will. Plugins>Composer's Tool's (I think)>Check Range

Also, you can use tabs in Finale.

Also, it's pretty outlandish to write music in tabs for any instrument other than guitar/bass, as it would be too difficult for a performer to read. Then again, most of you only write for recreation anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Personally, I hate tabs (except when writing for guitars, of course). It all boils down to what you're most comfortable with. People often claim how complicated and unnecessary standard notation is, and at first, yes, it's hard to get, but once you figure it out it makes it much simpler (especially for performance).
:tinysmile:

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I attached a screenshot of Guitar Pro's window. It looks much more complex than TaBit. Yet, it is a Guitar Tablature program, although it still includes other things, I believe.

Anyway... I will check one of those two programs. I will try TaBit and one of the other two at the same time.
I have a keyboard in my room. I know just a bit, but fairly understand how to play notes without them sounding random.
Still, I am a newbie. :P

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There is no such thing as piccolo tabs, or french horn tabs.

Obviously not, but tablature and notation are both ways of simply representing notes. I can look at tabs and (unless its complicated lol) hum the tune without playing it.

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As of now I use Tabit. The way I use it is my own personal business.

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-.-' What do you mean by as of now LOL.
There is no such thing as piccolo tabs, or french horn tabs.
Course not Holk (<3), but making it in the guitar tab form, just expresses it in the tabulure thingy, if you get what i mean...err which you probably dont.
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I've always wanted to compose my own music... which program is best for starting out?
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FL is easy. Probably too easy. But I find it the best to express my stuff.

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I've always wanted to compose my own music... which program is best for starting out?
Depends on your type of moozik too you know, i use tabit, and its not so tough, you just need sense and a keyboard, you just gotta enter numbers.

You can use Tabit(its bout maybe 1 mb big and all the songs are in kb's but are good), FL(49mb or so, never made a good song, but they are 3-4mb), Finale(197 mb, but it's worth it too you know, it kinda cool, dunno bout songs) and then stuff like Cakewalk etc which i never used.
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Fruity Loops can be good if you get good at it, but it eats up way too much RAM.

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He's right you know, the 49 mb is just the downloader, it's kinda big
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Fruity Loops can be good if you get good at it, but it eats up way too much RAM.

>.> I have no problems with FL... but meh. There's plenty to choose from Amalgamadora!

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That's because you like it and are used to it, but for the one's who haven't it can be a little ram problem, so if you got less space, then ....well  it's gonna be a problem
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No, RAM. meaning it eats up resources while its running. I used to use it a lot though.

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 :tpg:

With a fairly large song open :3

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As you can see here the use of RAM / CPU is simply people not bothering to turn Smart Disable on, although Silver wins... just showing that the usage isn't THAT heavy. Compare it to MSN and it isn't that much. Oh and the project I loaded was mad with effects and used three VSTs that tend to take up CPU.

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Wow, that actually uses up more CPU and RAM than Finale. Unless you use GPO or something with it. But still, that's worse than I thought, and Finale is a resource hog. :o It might not be that high when compared to other programs one might use, but for a music program, it's pretty bad.
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Wow, that actually uses up more CPU and RAM than Finale. Unless you use GPO or something with it. But still, that's worse than I thought, and Finale is a resource hog. :o It might not be that high when compared to other programs one might use, but for a music program, it's pretty bad.

Hmm... consider the fact that is has to create everything realtime, like the effects/synths?

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I think it has a lot to do with Fruity Loops using samples, and Finale, Cakewalk, and Tabit using midi.

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Oh yeah... FL don't use MIDI to my knowledge. Although it can if you really bother to bother. Samples? That isn't really what you use in FL (unless a synth decides to mess up upon render, happened a few times with Wasp XT and the solution is to sample that synth on it's own and yeah... *shuts up*).

@Halo: It was pretty heavy with effects to get things to sound right though but I'll stop talking about it now. We all know FL is CPU-heavy well... apparently (according to others anyway and in comparison to Finale / TabIt / WHATEVER).

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FL Uses ALOT more. Ataraxy's screenshots only show the RAM usage, not VM usage (virtual disk memory thing =o). It's hidden in task manager by default.

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Yeah, FL uses a lot, because it applies effects and everything else in realtime.
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@Halo: It was pretty heavy with effects to get things to sound right though but I'll stop talking about it now. We all know FL is CPU-heavy well... apparently (according to others anyway and in comparison to Finale / TabIt / WHATEVER).

If I were writing a song in Finale using samples instead of MIDI, it'd use at least twice the resources FL does (assuming I'm writing a polyphonic song) But that (in my case) has more to do with Garritan and those other libraries, rather than Finale. Finale bare-bones uses less resources than FL, but Garritan alone requires 1 GB of RAM (to run a full orchestra), and Virtual Drumline 2 requires 2 GB to run a full ensemble.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 05:18:01 PM by HaloOfTheSun »
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I started using Noteworthy Composer, which is better than most people think. If you can read standard notation anyway. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy and you can do almost anything you'd need to for a MIDI with it.

Now I use Finale, which does everything. Even if you can't read notation, you can just write in tabs, or a combination of both, or whatever. I'm actually teaching myself to read tabs this way: just write in notation, and then copy and paste it into tabs, and then I know what the notation would be if it were written in tabs. And you can do the pitch bends and modulation on instruments, like mentioned before. It also plays the music in a certain style, for example Rock. It will then play the song with all the

Huh...I play classical guitar, played violin and viola and played a little piano, so I can pretty much read everything, plus tabs.
And I was looking into finding something to make MIDIs, what would be the best to start with?

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TabIt and Noteworthy Composer are both excellent in that beginners can use them easily and that experts have the ability to do whatever they need in them. Of course, one is only for tabs, and one is only for standard notation, so you'll have to choose.

Cakewalk is a pretty decent choice, but I don't know much about that. You'd have to ask Holkeye.
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I have CakeWalk, but I thought it was only for recording.

I think I'll have to go with noteworthy because I'm better with reading staff, than tabs.

EDIT: I also have Adobe Audition, I think the newest version, but that's just for recording.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 11:19:31 PM by Mexneto »

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AA is quite a nice tool.

Just looking at FL7, I'm drooling over the Love Philter and Edison and the addition of a nice Smart Disable for generators is nice too. You can make MIDIs with FL also, which uses something similar to "standard-notation" (I've always called it the musical stave). In which you have a piano to it's side. The similarity should be obvious.

Making MIDI drums in it is easy as it tells you what every note/key is. Of course, CakeWalk and any MIDI specific thing is like that anyway? ?_?

It doesn't matter what you choose, everyone prefers something different. =]

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FL...  :-[

Ok, thanks! I know, AA rocks. (I didn't keygen it)

I'll try noteworthy.

But I'm not really good with anything other than guitar, I have perfected guitar, so I think it'll be hard for me to do other instruments.

But does it show the note? Or the string/key? Because if it shows the note, I'm good to go.

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But does it show the note? Or the string/key? Because if it shows the note, I'm good to go.

How do you mean?

And FL is nowhere near anything like standard notation. It's about as similar to standard notation as a brick.
:tinysmile:

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FL probably uses the map system, where it's basically a huge excel sheet of notes and positions in time and you just like mark it with the pencil tool, lol.

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FL probably uses the map system, where it's basically a huge excel sheet of notes and positions in time and you just like mark it with the pencil tool, lol.


But does it show the note? Or the string/key? Because if it shows the note, I'm good to go.

How do you mean?

And FL is nowhere near anything like standard notation. It's about as similar to standard notation as a brick.

Is noteworthy like a sheet of staff, and you mark which note you want with a pencil? Or something like that? Just wondering....

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It's staves, yes. And it's much faster to enter notes with the keyboard. You just pick which unit you want (quarter, eighth, etc.) move the little marker thing where you want it and press enter. In many ways it works like Microsoft Word. Well, after some experience with it, you may notice that.

Like any music program, I'm sure, it's pretty slow-going at first, but just keep at it.
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Thanks, I'll check it out!  :D

Reped up man!

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I use Finale 2006 for midi files, and I use FL Studio 7 Demo for creating loops, then I use Acid 4.0 to arrange them.

(also, anyone know if it's possible/how to import your own loops in Garage Band?)

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(also, anyone know if it's possible/how to import your own loops in Garage Band?)

It's not :(

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yeahr it is
I just figured out how today
(you need iTunes, but that's not a problem)

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What's the best FtU, and PtU music program?
FtU= Free to Use, PtU = Pay to Use.
Current Project:
Altaria: Deus ex Machina (in progress)

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Okay ppl.
1. Agree with others opinions
2. Dont create a fight over dogs.
I think we have a topic like this?
Anyways, i use tabit which Silver gave me :O It's ftu for ME and i dunno any ptu programs.
Maybe guitar pro or something?
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Merged with the stickied thread.

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What's the best FtU, and PtU music program?
FtU= Free to Use, PtU = Pay to Use.
It has been cracked. No exceptions. Everything in theory should be FtU.

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Merged with the stickied thread.

you piece of shit, you killed the poll!

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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oh wow, what the hell

I used the composers thread as the base though @_@

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The poll's been gone for a while. I know there were at least 2 instances because I put it back up twice: once when the forums went down, and once when we switched to SMF. The poll disappeared again for some reason and I was too lazy to add all those options again, ha.
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I still say it's Zypher's fault.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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Well, of course. I blame him too.
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That's what you get when you make him super mod. :P Just kidding! He's doing a good job :)

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Topic hasn't seen a post in a while, but I suppose I'll contribute.

For composing something grandiose that I could never perform by myself (I've passed some pieces off to a girl I know who's in a string quartet), I use Sibelius.   
For creating and recording sounds I couldn't otherwise achieve, I use Reason.
For general performance (say I randomly think of a guitar melody/chord progression and just want it on my computer for reference), as well as mixing/engineering/production tricks and creating tracks with a more electronic sound, I use ACID Pro. (6 has decent MIDI sequencing capabilities, and I'm an expert at sample manipulation)
Then if I feel the need to master a track, I use SoundForge.

My MIDI controller is an M-Audio Axiom 49.

Actual, physical instruments I own:
Acoustic guitars - one Seagull and one Fender
Electric guitars - Epiphone John Lennon Casino
Electric basses - Squier P. Base
Other stringed instruments - I attempted to build a lute once *shrug*
Various unimpressive percussive instruments
A piano which I can seldom use because it's actually my mother's.


...keep in mind that I'm more of a producer than an actual musician.


k I'm done



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I need to switch over to Sibelius, Finale is starting to annoy the hell out of me.


Anyway, guess I'll update my list:

General, non-orchestral MIDI composition: TabIt LOL (guitar tab program, windows only)
Orchestral MIDI compositions: Finale (windows or mac)
Post-composition, for Electronic Pieces: Import MIDI into Digital Performer, and hook it up with Reason. (I do this part on a mac, because DP is mac only)
Post-Production: Peak LE (great for EQing and normalization)
I have access to ProTools, and a ton of other programs like Sonar and Samplitude, if I need them. Music school ftw.

Actual instruments I own:
Washburn Electric Guitar
Fender Squier Acoustic
Taylor Acoustic
5 string fretless bass, cheap, no-name. Sounds great, though.
Crappy little midi controller (M-Audio O2)
Crappy big 7 year old MIDI keyboard (Casio something)

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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I wish I could switch to Sibelius, but it doesn't meet my needs, so I'm stuck with Finale. ;9
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I wish I could switch to Sibelius, but it doesn't meet my needs, so I'm stuck with Finale. ;9

Maybe you shouldn't be so needy. :V

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Maybe Sibelius should just give more :V

It's ok, Finale is actually just fine and I rarely have problems with it. If Sibelius offered what I needed it to, I still probably wouldn't switch.
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What really bothers me about Finale is the playback. Especially when it comes to ringing notes, or sustain pedals, and crap like that. It's apparently not possible to program in sustain in Finale. It's MIDI controller 64. Set it to 1. Sustain on. That's how it's done in basic MIDI, but no, Finale doesn't listen when you tell it that.

That and a ton of other playback issues make me really, really want to not use Finale, but I kind of have to...

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The pedal mark in the articulation tool doesn't work for you?

There's another way to do it that gives a better effect but I can't remember what it is. Something to do with creating an invisible expression mark and something.

You have to remember Finale is mainly for notation and production, rather than MIDI performance. Although I wish it weren't so.
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Mm, I use Finale 2006, and the sustaining petal works most of the time; there have been strange little occasions in which it suddenly didn't work, then I copied the notes to a new file and it works. There are quite a few glitchy things here and there, but I found it viable for the most part.

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I use 2006 too, but I haven't had that happen to me. D:

The only real problem I've had is sometimes the MIDI cuts out, and I have to reload the program. But if I'm using a sound library it doesn't matter, it always works. I've heard in newer versions this has been fixed though.
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Ah right, before I started using a sound library, it often mixed up the tracks/instruments when you out-put it through File -> Output, so now I just record it while it plays back in the program itself with Audacity. Speaking of which, Audacity is awesome.

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Agreement.

Also: For the poorer of us, I don't know if it's been said, but if you've only been able to write in MIDI so far you should look into a free program called "Synthfont".

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hopefully a digital drum kit if I can talk my band's drummer into letting me borrow his :)

Posting to verify that I've done this B)

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I tried SynthFont once. Wouldn't load any soundfonts, and was really slow and chuggy. :(

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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Oh yes, it is slow and chuggy.

But it's free.

However, I haven't had your problems with actually loading em up- it just takes a while with some of em. Why was that do you think?

(And what do you use instead, if anything? Roph gave me a cool program, but it doesn't like some of the things I do in tabit.)

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I can't speak for arlen on tabit or anything, but Finale can load soundfonts itself.
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I think I'll end up buying Finale since these sublegal copies of software tend to be so spastic sometimes.
Or I'll buy Garritan Personal Orchestra for use with my occasionally spastic software. 
:P <-- this is me contemplating

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Oh yes, it is slow and chuggy.

But it's free.

However, I haven't had your problems with actually loading em up- it just takes a while with some of em. Why was that do you think?

(And what do you use instead, if anything? Roph gave me a cool program, but it doesn't like some of the things I do in tabit.)
I found my old external soundcard recently. It loads soundfonts at the hardware level instead of the software level, I guess, but yeah, I just use that now.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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I use Cubase and Fruity Loops 7.

For the people who say Fruity Loops Sucks... Well, you don't know how to use it. I Use to use REASON, but figured out that Fruity Loops has the same capabilities made easier.

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K, so my updated list is:


Pre-Production/Composition:
- TabIt or Finale, depending on what kind of music I'm writing.
- Sometimes I'll compose right in Pro Tools or Digital Performer, if I don't care about tempo.

Production:
- Digital Performer, or Pro Tools if I'm working with Audio and Video as well.
- Both of them use the same bad-ass instrument sets like Mach V-2, and Spectrasonic's crazy shit,
like Atmosphere, Stylus RMX, Trilogy (for bass), and Omnisphere is coming out soon, which is ridiculously cool.
- Then there's a bunch of other ones like Drumulator, and the Mini-moogs, and blahblahblah.
- I don't even use Reason as a standalone, anymore. It's really more like just another instrument plugin.

Post-Production:
- Peak LE, just because it normalizes shit really well.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 05:03:08 PM by Arlen »

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Nice ^

I use to use Digital Performer, I loved it. I wish I still had it haha.

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- I don't even use Reason as a standalone, anymore. It's really more like just another instrument plugin.

Hear hear.

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Pre-Production/Composition:
- Paper and pen. Nothing can beat how simple it is...
- When I demo things, I usually use Cubase 4 to get guitar and drum ideas out.

Production:
- Nuendo. I work with Nuendo for a living, so It's gonna do what I want it to. Plus, with Vienna, DKFH, Reason, TimewArp 2600, I have loads of samples to work with
- Someone mentioned Stylus RMX. 'nuff said.
- My Motif 6 also comes into play.

Post-Production:
- Wavelab.


BTW, I'm Matt. I'm also new.

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I could never use paper and pen. I like to hear my ideas played back.

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Same. I'm not ear-trained enough or whatever to just say "oh, that note on paper sounds like this." I wonder how all the composers way back when did it so professionally... Unless, of course, Mozart used Tabit. Then everything makes sense.

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Mozart used a piano, lol.

Writing it all down on paper is fine if you're only working with one line, but like, when it comes to hearing complex drum patterns with bass lines, guitar rhythms and vocals all at once... or entire symphonies at once... 
I write much faster when I just program it all in and play it back. It's more of a convenience that I don't feel like giving up just because I can.

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How did composers of old make whole pieces of complex music and such? Just plain paper? And having a band playback for them ?_?

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Music of old was never that complex, you know. Most classical music is simple, I V I IV V I, clean cut, no dissonance, really easy to listen to music.

Past classical music, though ... eh ...


Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that it's not impossible for most musicians to hear complex things in their heads, but when it comes to writing it down, I find it to be much faster to use a computer and play it back.


But I'm sure composers holding rehearsals of unfinished works, and make changes to them before releasing them isn't unheard of...

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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Music of old was never that complex, you know. Most classical music is simple, I V I IV V I, clean cut, no dissonance, really easy to listen to music.

Past classical music, though ... eh ...


Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that it's not impossible for most musicians to hear complex things in their heads, but when it comes to writing it down, I find it to be much faster to use a computer and play it back.


But I'm sure composers holding rehearsals of unfinished works, and make changes to them before releasing them isn't unheard of...

I wouldn't say classical music was that easy. You had all those cadences, parallelisms, modes, big chords like B6sus9+5.

Compared to what has been done in past 40 years or so, yes it's simple... but there are one hell of a lot of rules when writing classical.

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Exactly. Classical was all about rules, and if you broke the rules you weren't writing good music. Pieces were clear-cut, simple, melody w/ accompanyment, and ALWAYS ended with a cadence.

Then came Brahms with his Romantic music. People went ape-shit when he released his first symphony, people said it was a travesty to music. Romantic music comes along, and suddenly the rules are being broken more often, making the music more complicated.

Then comes Debussy with Impressionism, and chromatic/diatonic planing and all these new techniques, the music gets even more complicated.

Then comes Serialism and 12-tone, and all bets are off, lol.



I'm talking about pure Classical, here, not anything and everything before Schoenberg came around.


So, what's so difficult about cadences? There's only, like, 6 of them. PAC, IAC, Half, Plagal, Deceptive, Phrygian. Most classical pieces ended with ONE of these, and it was almost always the same one, the Perfect Authentic Cadence. About 3 times. V I! V I! over and over until you were tired of hearing V I and then the piece was over.

Modes didn't really come around until the 1900's. Sure, they were invented before that, but they were scarcely used. The only "modes" classical really used were major and harmonic minor. That 7th in minor HAD to be raised, or else you were breaking a rule. And Classical was all about rules that couldn't be broken. Nevermind Lydian and Mixolydian and god forbid anyone even mention Locrian, no, this was Classical music.

And I don't remember any big chords. Extended tertian harmony was mostly an invention of Modern/Impressionistic music. Baroque music stopped at 7th chords, and even then they were rarely used. They became commonplace in Classical, but it wasn't until the Romantic period that extended harmonies started coming around. But even then, it wasn't until Impressionism and Modernism came that extended harmonies and your B6sus9+5's were used.






Ugh, but this is getting out of hand. How the hell am I really supposed to answer the kinds of questions Manatee's asking me? Jeez.

This is all his fault.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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Too true. I suppose I need to specify what I refer to.

Well, either way, I write stuff out on paper before I throw it into my mac.

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Ugh, but this is getting out of hand. How the hell am I really supposed to answer the kinds of questions Manatee's asking me? Jeez.

This is all his fault.
Lololol. But it was a nice read. I understood, like, 69%.

Too true. I suppose I need to specify what I refer to.

Well, either way, I write stuff out on paper before I throw it into my mac.
I lol'd again.

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I write big complex percussion ensemble pieces on paper most always before putting it in Finale. When you're experienced enough, it wouldn't be that difficult to write out ensemble music on paper, with a few parts here and there you may need to hear before you decide you like it.

Of course, when I get to parts that may be a bit dissonant I refer to the keyboard/piano like any respected composer would do before I end up wasting my time writing a bad section.

But then, writing for percussion isn't that big of a deal without hearing it played back. It's pretty easy to hear in your head how it would actually sound. The only real variables are overtones from metallic pitched percussion, types of mallets (which one can write for specifically, but still may not turn out the way you'd hoped), etc.
:tinysmile:

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Oh wow, big question...
As far as software goes I use Nuendo 3 and Cubase SX 4, and Finale for a notator.
My favorite sampler is probably Kontakt, but occasionally I'll use HALion 3.
I bought lots of sample packs, but among my favorite ones are EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Platinum Edition,
SAM Horns / Trombones / True Strike 2 and Solo Sessions, and Extended Classical Choir 2.
For amp-simulation I find GuitarRig2 to be the best digital amp-sim ever.
For mastering I use Izotope Ozone3 as well as many various plugz I gathered.
To put down the whole list would just take all day :)

As far as physical gear,
I use Creamware Pulsar 2 Soundcard, Fostex VM200 digital Mix Board, M-Audio KeyStation Pro-88 MIDI keyboard, ECM Condenser and Shure Sm58/57 Mics, AVTRON Preamp, LG Monitors.
Guitars: US Fender Start., US Jackson KE-2 Kelly, Fender Acoustic, Admira Classical, ALTO Wireless connection.
Bass: Fender P-Bass, Takamine Accoustic (which I customized into a fretless).
Amps & Stompboxes: Marshall park 30W, Ibanez Acc. Amp 25W, Dunlop Crybaby, Digitech Whammy, Ibanez Rotary Chorus, BOSS CS3 Compressor, Danelectro Fabtone Distortion, Digitech Digidelay, Dunlop Tremolo, AKAI Tune Lock and a home made footswitch :)
Drums and Percussion: TAMA Drumkit with Zildjian Cymbals and a Paiste 22' China, hand made Syrian darbuka, hand made Egyptian Frame drum, IP Shaker, hand made chinese finger cymbals, VIC Firth sticks mostly.
Misc.: Hand Made Egyptian Oud, hand made indian Charmer, Meg / Oak Irish whisltes (D and Low D), Hohner Chromatic Harmonica, YAMAHA Alto Recorder, Hohner Accordion, AIWA Studio Headphones.

EDIT: *very* old post, lol... been thoroughly updated since.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 09:23:56 PM by Omri Lahav - Composer »
Omri Lahav,
Quality composer / arranger for media.
Music team lead and principal composer for Wildfire Games' "0.A.D."

Omri@OmriLahav.com
http://OmriLahav.com

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Are you really Omri Lahav? It's an honor to have you here!

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I fail epically at composing. Though I'm only still learning composing to GCSE standard, Sibelius 4 works fine for me. It has good notation and tab functions. The only thing it's lacking is a sound libary tbh. Would really like to add some sound effects to pieces and fail at using converter programs etc.

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I think that would be pirating
AND WE DONT SUPPORT PIRATING AT RMRK :V
Arlen is hot.

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You should give Finale a try. I used to hate it, but once you actually figure out how it works, it's very effective. And it comes with Garritan Personal Orchestra, which is a very nice orchestra sound library.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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I think that would be pirating
AND WE DONT SUPPORT PIRATING AT RMRK :V

Nuuu, I mean that converting from a MIDI to an MP3 and inproving quality >_<

Quote from: arlen
You should give Finale a try. I used to hate it, but once you actually figure out how it works, it's very effective. And it comes with Garritan Personal Orchestra, which is a very nice orchestra sound library.
I'll give it a try.

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I started using FL7 the other day, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
it's a little overwhelming to look at at first, but imho so is any other good audio program.

I'm gonna be seeing what I can do with this, hehe :P

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I use Finale 2009. It has everything I need. And, it's great to use when writing percussion parts. I write a lot of marching percussion pieces and, it's the best program I've used to write them with.
My mind is my home

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I use GuitarPro. Very easy to use and got some really good features.
I'm much too lazy to put an actual signature here.

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Why isn't there so many ppl using Finale?  :(

I use finale 2009 with garritan personal orchestra - (from silbeus 4 and defualts)

I do consider myself a successful transposer/composer.

Finale is great, you just need to get used to its interface. The only thing wrong is that the Garritan Output is very umm low in volume  ;8
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I use GuitarPro. Very easy to use and got some really good features.
LOL WUT. For a tabbing program, it's the worst considering you need to put in the rests.

Also, Loche, I think arl uses Finale. He's majoring in MT so I think he uses everything. >_>

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Updated setup:

Finale for composition
ACID Pro 7 for mixing and various processes of production
Reason 4.0 for synthesis
Cubase Studio 4 for recording
Soundforge 9 for mastering

Then a bunch of really awful hardware, aside from my Axiom, which I love like an estranged ex-wife.

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Don't know why exactly I'm posting this, it doesn't matter to anyone lol

Dropping Finale and switching to Sibelius. In short, Sibelius has made composing fun again. Finale can suck it :mad:
:tinysmile:

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I'd switch to Sibelius if I didn't already know more about Finale than the programmers of Finale do.  ;9

But I suppose it wouldn't matter in the end, because I could xml my UNFINISHED Finale scores INTO Sibelius.
Because my finishes scores are just pdf files, and once they're finished they really don't ever need to be opened in Finale ever again.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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Being so familiar with Finale (like extremely familiar as you are) is what kept me from doing this earlier too. But after using Sibelius several times at school I realized that I actually hate Finale and it's why I barely write anything anymore unless I have to. Sibelius is so intuitive and just makes things so much easier.

However I think this is a recent development. I know Sibelius used to not be able to do a lot of things, but now it pretty much does everything Finale does (as far as I can tell) only it's simpler. Plus there's a discount for switching from Finale :)
:tinysmile:

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A DISCOUNT!? :O

Shit, that's all I need to hear.

:tinysmile::tinysmile:

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My school has Sibelius. We use it for our theory class. ;8 Is it really that good? o_o

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In my opinion, Sibelius is much more intuitive and easier to use. It makes composition fun. :-]

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You just said what I said but in a different way :mad:

My school has Sibelius. We use it for our theory class. ;8 Is it really that good? o_o

I think so. Plus it seems professional composers (like for movies and shit) mostly use Sibelius nowadays. So it's professional :B
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yay, i use sibelius, before i used to use Finale2003... :D its cool too, but oldy =D
My Puzzle/StandAlone game in a week:


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This is my first post, as I just joined today.  :D

Our family is big into music, so my dad and I turned
our garage into a music studio. I play (and collect)
synthesizers. So that's what I use to make music.
My main workstation is a Yamaha Motif XS6,
and I record into a program called Digital Orchestrator.
It's a pretty no-frills program, but I use rack equipment
for effects anyway.
So thats what I use.  :lol:
Musician and fan of pixels.

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