Simplify

Poll

What changes should we make?

Disperse Forum Games into General Chat and Delete it.
1 (9.1%)
Make Forum Games a child board of Archives.
0 (0%)
Leave Forum Games as a child board of General Chat.
3 (27.3%)
Disperse Ask a Stereotype into General Chat and delete it.
2 (18.2%)
Leave Ask a Sterotpye as a child board of Archives.
1 (9.1%)
Make Ask a Stereotype a child board of General Chat.
0 (0%)
Make Bean Bags a parent-level Board.
2 (18.2%)
Leave Bean Bags as a child board of General Chat.
2 (18.2%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: April 06, 2014, 04:42:42 PM

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the RMRK 7 thread has me thinking, why do we here at rmrk do things the way we do them? not that our ways are bad. far from it. just WHY do we do them that way?

Were I a mod, I'd post this in the mod hut but I feel like the boards have gotten super disorganized just from general usage over the years and could use some reorganizing.

Stuff like, why the heck do we have General Chat and Community when we use it for the exact same type of threads. it just splits up our activity needlessly and makes it harder to find relevant threads.

Why have elitist debate and in the news be two separate things when they end up being the same kind of discussions?

Why have Entertainment and Video games be separate things when we hardly ever have posts in there to begin with and it could all go under like a Media Forum, and the important community building shit like gamer tags and steam handles could go under community.

I mean it's not like we have to change things, but why not simplify our forum instead of fragmenting everything into its own little corner.

To be fair this would be a long process that would need to be discussed at length and agreed upon but I think it could help inspire some activity. I just wanna get some input from everyone.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 07:51:05 AM by Strike Reyhi »
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I agree with all of the above. As you said, it will take a ton of discussion. I'm posting here right now so I can keep up with this thread when I come up with something more useful to say than "I agree". ;9
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Agreed. This is how I think I'd do it:

General Chat - Merged from: General Chat, In The News, Elitist Debate, Community, Ask a Stereotype, Forum Games
Sub Forums: Welcome, Bean Bags

Entertainment - Merged from: Entertainment, Video Games

Other Game Making Programs - Merged from: Other Game Making Programs, Game Maker

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in all seriousness I agree, our smaller community warrants smaller boards. If activity is to continue growing (which it actually is a little right now) we can put in more boards, but Irock's suggestion seems pretty good to me. If we get more conversation on this i'll do the merging around once a consensus is reached.
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Makes sense to me.

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The creativity boards haven't gotten that much activity for a while. Maybe we could merge those together as one big general creativity board, with a child board for music or art if needed.

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Huh, everything has gotten really cluttered, hasn't it? I always thought Entertainment and Video Games should be merged. The In The News subforum never made sense to me, and once we added Community, no one has ever been sure what goes there and what goes in General Chat. We could definitely do some cleaning up.
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The creativity boards haven't gotten that much activity for a while. Maybe we could merge those together as one big general creativity board, with a child board for music or art if needed.

I think the creativity board is fine because they all have and serve a specific/simple purpose.

The only board I think we should make a sub board instead of removing is Elitist Debate, so that we can keep things like that in their own area on the off chance that they get heated.  I think that should be a sub board of Community, while the rest of Irock's suggestion works pretty well.

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I feel like community is a better forum title than general chat. maybe we could rename it community chat.

I agree that elitist debate should be nested under something else.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PM by Strike Reyhi »
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The creativity boards haven't gotten that much activity for a while. Maybe we could merge those together as one big general creativity board, with a child board for music or art if needed.

I think the creativity board is fine because they all have and serve a specific/simple purpose.

What if we made the "anything else" board the main creativity board with child boards for art, music, and literature? As it is right now it just feels silly to have a whole creativity category when there's barely a page of new posts between them.

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The creativity boards haven't gotten that much activity for a while. Maybe we could merge those together as one big general creativity board, with a child board for music or art if needed.

I think the creativity board is fine because they all have and serve a specific/simple purpose.

What if we made the "anything else" board the main creativity board with child boards for art, music, and literature? As it is right now it just feels silly to have a whole creativity category when there's barely a page of new posts between them.

They do serve a purpose though.

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I did consider recommending merging the creativity boards, but I think being able to browse categorically in this case is more important. I don't like the idea of having them made into subforums of Everything Else either, because that understates the significance of the child boards and arbitrarily gives Everything Else more priority.

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The creativity boards haven't gotten that much activity for a while. Maybe we could merge those together as one big general creativity board, with a child board for music or art if needed.

I think the creativity board is fine because they all have and serve a specific/simple purpose.


I agree with this. Even though those boards don't get a lot of activity having them separate makes it easier for me to find say M00s' writings or Halo's music quickly. 

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I did consider recommending merging the creativity boards, but I think being able to browse categorically in this case is more important. I don't like the idea of having them made into subforums of Everything Else either, because that understates the significance of the child boards and arbitrarily gives Everything Else more priority.

It doesn't mean it has more priority, it just means it's nonspecific. Look at the Scripts board. The child boards for different script databases are arguably more important, but they're all underneath the Scripts board, which is just a place to request a script or compatibility fix. They'd still be categorized.


Edit: Let me clarify that by "make 'everything else' the main board", I meant that it would be a general creativity board with the everything else category absorbed into it.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 09:15:40 PM by Acolyte »

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I did consider recommending merging the creativity boards, but I think being able to browse categorically in this case is more important. I don't like the idea of having them made into subforums of Everything Else either, because that understates the significance of the child boards and arbitrarily gives Everything Else more priority.

It doesn't mean it has more priority, it just means it's nonspecific. Look at the Scripts board. The child boards for different script databases are arguably more important, but they're all underneath the Scripts board, which is just a place to request a script or compatibility fix. They'd still be categorized.


Edit: Let me clarify that by "make 'everything else' the main board", I meant that it would be a general creativity board with the everything else category absorbed into it.
Parent boards do have priority in the interface over child boards; they're larger and more prominent.

The Scripts board is kind of strange to me, and it's not immediately obvious what the parent board is actually for. However, it's not nearly as bad because the Scripts parent board doesn't serve a comparable purpose to its child boards. If you have a Creativity board that serves the purpose of posting content that doesn't fall into the categories of Music, Visual Art or Literature, then there's a weird unbalance where one of the content boards is given more prominence than the others. A film director would get to post his stuff in the distinguished parent board while musicians, painters and poets would have to post in the less noticeable subforums.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 09:40:36 PM by Irock »

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Irock has a point, I maintain that we should keep them the same as they are now.

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The Everything Else board being the parent board would just end up being like the RMRK Trading board, whenever people post topics there that belong in the child boards anyway and so it never really serves a purpose.

Speaking of, I always thought it was silly to have all those child boards for Trading, since it never got much activity and almost never gets any activity at all now. I would actually say the Trading boards are borderline pointless these days.
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Agreed. This is how I think I'd do it:

General Chat - Merged from: General Chat, In The News, Elitist Debate, Community, Ask a Stereotype, Forum Games
Sub Forums: Welcome, Bean Bags

Mm, I don't think a single board should be used for such a wide variety of potential topics.

General Chat and Community can be easily merged, as can Elitist Debate and In The News. Child boards are a bit more difficult to place, but Introduction and Bean Bags wouldn't fit anywhere else other than in the General Chat board.
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Agreed. This is how I think I'd do it:

General Chat - Merged from: General Chat, In The News, Elitist Debate, Community, Ask a Stereotype, Forum Games
Sub Forums: Welcome, Bean Bags

Mm, I don't think a single board should be used for such a wide variety of potential topics.

General Chat and Community can be easily merged, as can Elitist Debate and In The News. Child boards are a bit more difficult to place, but Introduction and Bean Bags wouldn't fit anywhere else other than in the General Chat board.
Why not? Having one broad General board works for forums way more active than RMRK, such as TIGSource (which only has General and Video Games for non-gamedev discussion).

To be honest, I wouldn't be totally opposed to merging The Sewers with General Chat since there's so much overlap as it is.

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I think The Sewers should be separate from General.

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I think The Sewers should be separate from General.
My objections to it are more about maintaining tradition than anything else. I don't care either way and I think most people would be in favor of keeping it.

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I don't mind nixxing The Sewers, I just don't think many of the posts, if any of them, should be outside The Sewers.

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After doing a little local mod cleaning, I came up with a small list of proposed changes. I still think a little simplifying might help. =o Anything not listed is a no change. Thoughts?

Spoiler for Copy of my notes:
==FORUM ANNOUNCEMENTS & Stuff==
(no change)

==RMRK GENERAL==
-Community (merge with General Chat)
   >Elitist Debate

-Entertainment
   >Video Games
   >Computing and Technology

-Creativity (added to general instead of being its own section)
   >The Auditorium
   >Gallery
   >The Librarium
   >Everything else

==PRIVATE BOARDS==
-(Mod stuff)
-RMRK Advanced
-Extra Access
(etc ;o)

(I think it'd be a good idea to keep private boards separate for some reason. Maybe that's just me, though.)

edit: or keep the private ones at the very, very bottom. =o
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 03:05:19 AM by Queen yuyubabe »
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I don't like it. Creativity should still be separate like it is. Having a parent board for those just results in an empty parent board. I also don't think Video Games needs to be a child board of Entertainment so much as it should just be merged with it. RMRK Advanced makes more sense where it is too since it's RPG Maker-related. Going off of that there's no need for a Private Boards group but I guess it'd be fine to just throw our miscellanea there if everyone else likes it.
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I don't like it. Creativity should still be separate like it is. Having a parent board for those just results in an empty parent board. I also don't think Video Games needs to be a child board of Entertainment so much as it should just be merged with it. RMRK Advanced makes more sense where it is too since it's RPG Maker-related. Going off of that there's no need for a Private Boards group but I guess it'd be fine to just throw our miscellanea there if everyone else likes it.

Hmmmm...you have a point. It would be a bit of an empty parent board. Unless "Everything Else" became the parent board, but that would probably be tacky. ;9

I'd be down for merging video games and entertainment (and computing/technology?). B)

Whenever I first got into EA it kinda threw me off that it was randomly thrown in the middle of the General Section. However, it's easy to find the awesome greek team game because it's at the bottom.
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I agree with that, all 13 of our secret/hidden boards should go at the bottom, as a collective.

edit: miscounted
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There's a RMRK Advanced group?  O.o


How does on egain access to said secret groups? What if one has a secret password? Does this grant secret access?    ;8
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It's a group for advanced RPG maker users.

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EA is kind of in a weird place now that you mention it. I never really thought about it. Keeping all the private boards at the bottom of the groups is a neat idea. I kinda like that.

I'm not sure about merging Computing with anything else since that is typically used as a troubleshooting board rather than discussion.
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Hmmm...so more like this?:

Spoiler for:
-Community (merge with General Chat) = Community Chat

-Make Elitist Debate a child board to Community Chat

-Make In The News a child board to Community Chat. (moved from GC) *edit

-Merge Entertainment and Video Games

-Move all the private boards to the bottom of their section (or make them their own section?)

We can always try out that (if everyone likes it) and then see if there's any other ways to clean stuff up. B)

I still think there must be -something- that we can change with RMRK creativity, but that's a toughie.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 09:47:44 PM by Queen yuyubabe »
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I like that version best, so if my vote at all counts, I vote Yea!

As to the ongoing issue of merging the different arts.. I'm a little split on the issue. It makes sense to put them into one main forum, with all of the types of arts as sub-forums. Yes, this would create an empty parent board, but I think of it as the same type of layout as some of the folders on my computer haha.. Like my music folder. Empty, with a million artist folders =p  So when it comes right down to it, I think it would be a good idea, even though it really would look silly with an "empty" board. Just my two cents..
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Categories are more like folders than boards are.

That said, I think we should also keep the Welcome board available.

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Maybe it would be easier to just take a vote on how to handle the creativity boards?

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Well, we could always find something to do with the parent board. I was thinking "everything else" might work, but that is a bit tacky, yeah. (Wait, did I already say that? Oh, well).

Or we can find a parent board for them (though I can't possibly think of what that would be right now). I'll make a poll.
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We could move them under community maybe.

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That's not a bad idea. =o Though it might start to look just a tad bit crowded under the community section with Welcome, Bean Bags, Forum Games, Ask A Stereotype, Elitist Debate, In The News, and the four of them. ;_; Unless we squeezed a couple things out of the community. It's going to start to look packed. ;_;

Maybe we can do this:

Spoiler for:
= The Community =

-Welcome
-Bean Bags
-In The News
-Auditorium
-Gallery
-Librarium
-Everything Else (Or Other Creativity)

= Forum Games =

-Ask a Stereotype
-Elitist Debate

Still a tad bit crowded. ;_; This is tough.
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I don't think ask a stereotype or in the news is really needed anyway. And I think we all want to see forum games gone. :anski2:

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new category

"Shit no one should care about"
Forum Games
Elitist Debate
Ask a stereotype
Nouman
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Why do we have to move Creativity at all? With all of the other merging and cleaning up that will be done the boards will already be a lot more organized/easier to use.  I think Creativity should stay as it is. I like being able to access it quickly and easy when I want to find something. And it works as a stand alone category because of what it -is-. 

I don't think ask a stereotype or in the news is really needed anyway. And I think we all want to see forum games gone. :anski2:


I dunno about forum games, I rarely play them. And I rarely see anyone else play them any more.   News usually ends up in community, the sewers, or elitist debate anyways.  So I agree with this statement xD 

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Hmmm... Why do we even still have forum games? =o Ask A Stereotype is somewhat useful, as it gives a way to introduce new members to the forums in a question-and-answer manner (when actually used correctly). That being said, it does get abused quite a bit lately. Maybe it just doesn't need to be its own child board?

As for forum games, I'd be okay with moving it to the archives.

What about this for the community (assuming it gets merged with General Chat)?

Spoiler for:
-Merge Elitist Debate and In The News to become "News & Debate"
-Get rid of Forum Games & Ask a Stereotype OR Merge them.

So it would look like this:

-Welcome
-Bean Bags
-News & Debate
-(?)Forum Games (now merged with AAS OR moved to archives)

(Creativity stuff still in debate)
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Forum Games HAS outlived it's usefulness, I'm afraid. It's time is simply past.
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I'm considering moving Ask a Stereotype to the archives, it was meant for a more humorous use, and just kind of degraded to a lot less interesting things. Nobody really uses it for a serious Q&A anymore.
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Ask a Stereotype should have been moved to the archives years ago.
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I went ahead and moved it to the archives. It isn't going to make sense merged with any other board due to the narrow topic selection of it, and nobody really uses it. So go ahead and plan any other mergers without it involved.
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In that case, here's what I have so far (because I'm obsessed with organizing things :V):

Spoiler for:
-Merge community and general chat to be "Community Chat"

-Merge elitist debate and in the news to be "News & Debate" OR archive one or both?*

-Merge Entertainment and Video Games to be "Games & Entertainment"*

-Move forum games to be a child board of Games & Entertainment? Or archive it?*

-Move all the private boards to the bottom of their section (mostly EA lol)

-Archive Ask A Stereotype

Should we go ahead with the above and then decide any further changes afterwards?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 04:37:32 AM by Queen yuyubabe »
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I think "Games and Entertainment" would work well

tv, movies, books, videogames, tabletop and board games could all be in there. if we wanted we could even make forumgames a child board or something if we decide to keep it around.

News and Debate will just become the "everyone bitches about politics, world news and religion boards"  like the respective boards are now. but then, i've never liked those two boards so i should have no say in stuffing them into a tiny corner to die.

Why do we have to move Creativity at all? With all of the other merging and cleaning up that will be done the boards will already be a lot more organized/easier to use.  I think Creativity should stay as it is. I like being able to access it quickly and easy when I want to find something. And it works as a stand alone category because of what it -is-. 

I'm starting to agree with this. I think we'd be better off waiting and seeing if the creativityforums need a revamp after we sort all the other stuff into better spots
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 03:58:30 AM by Strike Reyhi »
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I think "Games and Entertainment" would work well

if we wanted we could even make forumgames a child board or something if we decide to keep it around.

^ Both sound good to me. B)

News and Debate will just become the "everyone bitches about politics, world news and religion boards"  like the respective boards are now. but then, i've never liked those two boards so i should have no say in stuffing them into a tiny corner to die.

I agree about Elitist Debate being pointless (and wouldn't really mind it getting Archived), but I kinda think "In The News" should stick around at least. =o

It seems to be the general consensus thus far that RMRK Creativity should stay the same. =o
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I think if Forum Games were to not be archived it fits best as a subforum of Community, since it's a community activity not really a general form of entertainment. I would vote for archiving it, though. When RMRK first started (and was crankeye.com/forums) those kinds of games were popular among pretty much any forum. 9 years later, nobody cares about that stuff. But I can understand keeping it around even still.

Elitist Debate is trickier. It's barely active, and the vast majority of the topics there are just aggravating and are the kinds of things that are pointless to debate because no one is going to change anyone's mind and you just end up with people getting angry because it's hard to separate "debating" with "arguing", especially in text format, even if the topic starter is well-meaning and intends for an actual intelligent discussion.. So that's a big reason to archive it and throw away the key. But every now and then one of those topics comes up anyway, so then where does it go? It seems silly to keep a board around just for the chance to have a place to put a topic once or twice a year, but it's also good to know that there is a place for it and the kind of behavior that is expected when you post there (as in we expect people to be mature and rules tend to be a little more strict there, whether or not any of that actually happens). I don't know, I feel conflicted about it. Either way is best for me.

I never understood the point of having In The News. I know it was to post topics about, well, the news - without the debating and everything that Elitist Debate brings about - but it seems like General Chat already served that purpose. Of course, if that gets merged into Community then In The News staying makes more sense, as those topics don't relate to the RMRK community, and since that seems to be what everyone is suggesting we do, then I'd vote to keep In The News and make it a subforum of Community.
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I actually agree with what HotS stated. Pretty much 100%
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general chat may have originally been for topics that weren't specific to the rmrk community but I think just having community works because why else would you post a general topic besides the chance to discuss that topic with the rmrk community.

so far it seems like

FORUM ANNOUNCMENTS
 -no change?
       We could maybe split the Discussion archives down into the EVERYTHING ELSE category at the bottom of the forum and just have an "Awards Archive" up here.

RMRK GAME CREATION
 -no changes unless we merge Game Maker into Other Game Making Programs as Irock suggested.
 -Keep private RM Boards up here, Like Advanced and UNNAMED GREEK THEMED JUMP AND RUN

RMRK CREATIVITY
 -no changes for now maybe later if necessary

RMRK GENERAL

Community Chat (general chat merged with Community)
    CHILD BOARDS
        -Welcome
        -Bean Bags
        -In the News
        -Maybe forum games.(unless we archive it)
-Community Chat stickies
 -Avatar and Sig Rating
 -Post your picture
 -post your Desktop
 -Fact File
 -What are you eating (could we merge the lunch, dinner, breakfast threads?)
 -unsticky everything else from those boards

games and entertainment
-Games and Entertainment stickies
 - online game info
 - screenshots
 - what are you playing
 - what are you listening to
 - what are you reading (for reading including manga) possibly merge this with this or just specify that what are you reading can include manga
 - (I don't think we have a what are you watching thread but we could have one i guess.)
(keeping these separate because they tend to result in more discussion about their respective topics)
 -unsticky everything else from those boards

EVERYTHING ELSE (or whatever we call it)
Move stuff like EA and other hidden boards to here at the bottom
-EA
-Trading card game
-hello shitty board
-RMRKMon could go here too.
-etc
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:38:59 PM by Strike Reyhi »
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Wow, you went through all that with deadly precision. o.o You even got to the stickies (which I've been meaning to organize but keep forgetting to ;9).

Honestly, I would be happy with all of the above changes. Hell, I'd even be willing to take a crack at it if no one else wants to. B)
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Oh yeah, the "what are you eating" topics should be merged. They were started as some sort of joke in IRC that I can't remember and we meant to merge them at some point but I guess we forgot.
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PREPARE FOR THE PURGE



ohwait.. you said merge... carry on~

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We're going to get a couple more opinions before going ahead with this. B)

But as it stands, it looks like this is the current sketch.
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Sorry I haven't posted here yet, but I think this clean up is a good idea. Specifically, I like what Strike said. The only things I would add are the following.

  • I know that News & Updates is tied to the homepage, and that Featured Projects is too. However, I wouldn't mind merging News & Updates into Forum Announcements, and just having everything in Forum Announcements show up on the homepage. However, I'm not sure about the logistics of that. As for Featured Projects, I like that it is tied to something on the homepage, but I think if it's to stick around we should actually feature projects once in a while.

  • I see no reason for the Polling Booth to be a child board of Board Support/Feedback. It hasn't had a new post in it for 2 years, and I don't really think it adds anything. I see no reason the Polls can't just be done in the main Board Support/Feedback Board.

  • I kind of like having the Discussion Archives up at the top. It can be a nice introduction to the community, and its prominence is not a bad thing. That said, we should probably be making more of an effort to actually archive some of the good topics we've had. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post a link in this topic and I can move them.

  • If we do move the Discussion Archives to another location, I think the Awards should go with them. I don't see a good reason to separate them.

  • I don't think Ask a Stereotype! should be put in the Archives, because I don't think the topics are good enough that they should be archived. Rather, I think we should just move all the topics into General Chat and abolish the Board altogether.

  • I don't think we should archive Forum Games for the same reason. I wouldn't mind it being a child board of Community, but given its inactivity I also think its topics could just be moved into the general Community board and delete the board.

  • I think RMRK Game Creation could be cleaned up (for instance, the separate boards for Event Systems have not worked out, and it might be best just to merge them all into one and use tags). I'd need to think about it more though and so I might post about them later.

  • I would not opposing merging Game Maker with Other Game Making. It has not had a lot of activity recently.

  • For Trading, I agree with the earlier suggestion that we delete all the child boards and just put them all in one general board. I also wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of it altogether.

  • I like merging News and ED and making it a child of General Chat.

  • I also like keeping Creativity as a stand alone category. If we were to change it, I'd say we could just make it a single board without children under RMRK General, and have all the topics alongside one another.

  • I'm OK with merging General Chat and Community. I do like the theory behind having a residual board and can imagine some topics which would be weird to put under Community (like talking about engines or something), but there isn't a lot of distinction in practice.

  • I don't mind merging video games and entertainment, though I don't think their separation hurts either. Given our demographic, video games probably do interest more members than other forms of entertainment, and has certainly generated more topics. However, seeing that both are fairly inactive, I can see why a merger might be a good idea.

  • I also approve of moving all hidden boards into a separate category at the bottom, including RMRK Advanced and that stuff.

  • As I've said on other occasions, I would be happy if some things were not only unspeakable but also non-existent.

Of course, those are only suggestions, and I'm happy to go along with just what Strike has.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 03:02:05 AM by modern algebra »

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As I've said on other occasions, I would be happy if some things were not only unspeakable but also non-existent.

It's gone :)

bringing sexy back

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As I've said on other occasions, I would be happy if some things were not only unspeakable but also non-existent.

It's gone :)

haha, thanks.

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I see no reason for the Polling Booth to be a child board of Board Support/Feedback.

We have a polling booth? Huh... That should probably go.

I also like keeping Creativity as a stand alone category. If we were to change it, I'd say we could just make it a single board without children under RMRK General, and have all the topics alongside one another.

Creativity started out as its own board rather than a category with separate boards for each facet. It was decided to split it up after a while because it just became too messy having music, art, writing, and everything else covered under one roof, and I think that if we were to merge it all again it would be the same. Only this time there is quite a lot more music topics posted than there were back then, so that would start to dominate over the rest. I agree with everything else you've said though.
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I haven't been here as long as everyone else, but having been here since 2006 I can at least note that most of the boards came about because there was a need for them. I can understand reorganizing some of them under parent boards, but once we start merging boards together I get the feeling we're just going to run into the same problem that warranted creating those boards to begin with. Especially in terms of the creative boards and the entertainment ones.

But I also don't really think anyone is posting enough anymore for it to make much of a difference either way, so take it or leave it.

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I'd also like to note that if we create several parent boards it makes it much easier for users to minimize the particular sections that don't interest them, thereby "cleaning up" the home page to their own personal liking.

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I haven't been here as long as everyone else, but having been here since 2006 I can at least note that most of the boards came about because there was a need for them.
still it's one of those things, needs always change over time

. I can understand reorganizing some of them under parent boards, but once we start merging boards together I get the feeling we're just going to run into the same problem that warranted creating those boards to begin with.
we might but we might also find a better way to deal with those problems rather than just making yet another subforum to eventually abandon.

Especially in terms of the creative boards and the entertainment ones.
That's the main reason we shouldn't fuck with the creativity boards, the different artistic disciplines are different enough that having them all in one parent board would make it hard navigate.

 I understand the apprehension about merging videogames with other entertainment. most of us are gamers, not all of us are super into watching TV. but what it comes down to is those topics could be side by side because it's just a discussion of media sources.

But I also don't really think anyone is posting enough anymore for it to make much of a difference either way, so take it or leave it.
Which is exactly the reason the forums should change a bit. Activity isn't just dying because we locked sign ups or because the official enterbrain forums or whatever are more popular now. it's dying off because we aren't pruning unneeded stuff and pushing new members and lurkers to get engaged in the community.

having so many different places to start threads and having no idea where to post certain things because there's several different areas a topic could plausibly go has to be offputting to new members. Think of RMRK as Alaska right now, loads of people in it but spread out over a really large area.

:tinysmile:

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When I first joined the forums, I admit that I was daunted by all the different places to post and it got really confusing. ;_;
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That's the main reason we shouldn't fuck with the creativity boards, the different artistic disciplines are different enough that having them all in one parent board would make it hard navigate

I am in total agreement with this.
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Yeah, I think Creativity is fine as it is.

I see your point Malson, but I think it mainly depends on activity more than anything else. For some things (like music or whatever), organizing them into separate boards make sense for the sake of navigability. When I want to find a thread, I know where to look. But for other things like Entertainment, it would be rare that anyone would be looking for a thread about some TV show that was last posted in a year ago. The main reason for separate boards in those cases is activity-related, and if only the first five topics have been posted in for the last 6 months, I don't really see the need for a separate board. The result is just that those threads are quarantined and are seen by less people. If the need should arise again in the future, it is easy enough to just re-create the board.

Having thought about it more, I don't have many ideas for the Game Creation boards. I feel like the Resources boards haven't done a great job of encouraging activity, but I don't see a way to change it that would make much sense. The only thing I would think would be making it its own category with the main board being separated as a straight request board, but that might just create more clutter.

I wouldn't mind doing something about Projects either. I think it might be worthwhile to combine the New Projects and Substantial Projects into one WIP board. I haven't really been keeping on top of it, and anyway I think the distinction makes more sense in theory than it does in practice. Without much activity, at best it merely discourages people from looking at new projects, which means that those people receive less feedback and thereby provides no incentive to keep updating their project on this site. If it doesn't do that, then the distinction is pointless and is just a make-work project for moderation - work that nobody does.

Beyond that, I would just combine all the separate maker boards for Event Systems into one. I've tagged all the threads in there with the maker to ease that transition if that's what we decide to do.

I also think we can dissolve the Scripting Seminar board since I never gave that idea the attention it needed. I think we could also move those topics into the main board.

And again, I think dissolving the Game Maker board into Other Game Making Programs is fine too, but I would add [GM] tags to those topics before we do if that is what we decide.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 04:46:24 PM by modern algebra »

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tbh modern the rm boards are your bread and butter and i think youd know what was best for them.

i just feel like we would be best served by leaving much of the rm stuff the same and focusing on making it easier to navigate by(and this would be a load of work) implementing a more comprehensive hub for scripts and event systems and resources, in a thread in a parent board maybe not sure where we'd put it, categorizing them into stuff like

===scripts===
 -turn based combat 
 -real time combat
 -leveling systems
===event systems=== 
 -menus and functions
 -crafting
===resources===
 -tilesets
 -facesets 
 -etc

i know we kinda have something of that sort but more of us need to work at it and get it organized. we cant leave all of this on moderns shoulders all the time

EDIT: http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,45402.0.html this would be even better if from here you got shunted to a related sticky indexing and categorizing the stuff in them maybe
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 07:03:54 PM by Strike Reyhi »
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I'm for the idea of merging New and Substantial projects together into WIP Projects.

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I'm for the idea of merging New and Substantial projects together into WIP Projects.

Hmm... yes.

But Strike, I'd say the scripts are organised very well. In fact, and going off of what you wrote, I'd say organise the event systems in the same way (easy for me to say, I'm not a mod.)

And if I'm not mistaken, aren't the resources already organised in that fashion? More or less?
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well basically what i think we need to do is create and maintain an index for each program so maybe it can be simpler to find the types of systems and resources you want as opposed to changing the actual organization of the boards

but then i'm just tossing out one idea not saying it's the best or that it's even good
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I guess I didn't explain very well. What I meant was that RMRK General would benefit from being separated into parent boards. I don't know what the technical SMF term is for that, but it's the bracketed subsections of the home page containing the boards. Like Announcements, Creativity, et cetera. I have Game Creation minimized on the home page because it's not something I pay attention to at all, so it makes the front page a lot cleaner and more geared towards my interests. Separating RMRK General into, say, RMRK Entertainment, RMRK Community, RMRK Miscellanea, and so on will not only organize these particular boards but also allow users to "clean up" the boards to their own choosing by minimizing those which they do not frequent. That's not to say that some boards wouldn't benefit from just ceasing to exist, but getting rid of something like Video Games doesn't make any sense to me because that's a large common interest almost all of us share.

I also don't personally like the idea of sub forums at all outside of Game Creation but that's just me.

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we aren't "getting rid" of videogames, we're just thinking about merging it with entertainment because they're similar topics and both boards are dead all the time

they have maybe 10 threads between them that aren't stickies that have posts in them in the last 60 days.

I hate to say it, but it's similar to marketing RMRK. So many of our boards look DEAD AND INACTIVE it pushes lurkers away from posting and we want more activity.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 04:33:58 PM by Strike Reyhi »
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This is a major concern. For example think way, WAY back to...fuck. I think it was RMRK.org? It was a temporary forum Roph set up while he got all the shit from crankeye's forums transferred over to what would eventually become RMRK. Because there was literally nothing, posting shot up like crazy. There was total freedom to bring up a topic because it was all new ground. Then the old content got merged in and all of that momentum kept things running for a long, long while. That's why people like irock, myself, etc have an insanely high post count. We were all here during that phase, and it set a tone.

Of course that's also where that port wine shit came from, so it's a bit of a double edged sword. But one edge is certainly more keen than the other.

As for creativity, I cast my vote, it's fine as it is in my opinion- but that appears to be the consensus regardless.

RMRK DOES need some clean up, it's true. A soft reboot of sorts. Yes, we have topics for lots of things. The what are you eating for breakfast thread. The here's my confession thread. But if we archive all of those really big, really old threads, and spur a new iteration of them into being, post rates would very likely increase.

Think of "ITT: We have the highest number of posts". That thread slowed down after a while. Then Roph archived it (or nuked it, or it got locked or something) and a new one was made...and that new thread went turbo speed for a while.

Anyhow, this is a lot of rambling at ...oddly enough, 4:20 AM. Just some thoughts.

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I hate to say it, but it's similar to marketing RMRK. So many of our boards look DEAD AND INACTIVE it pushes lurkers away from posting and we want more activity.

This sounds very reasonable.
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Alright, so I merged Event Systems and also deleted the Scripting Seminar

For merging Substantial and New Projects, I was thinking we should make that the basic Projects Board and have Finished Projects be a child Board, rather than the other way around. Any objections? If we do it the other way around, what should we call it? I think "Projects in Progress" might work, but I would be open to suggestions.

Also, there are some projects in Substantial which haven't been posted in for 7 years. On the one hand, they're obviously abandoned. On the other hand, they could still be fun to play through if they have a demo. I think I will move any project that hasn't been posted in for at least two years to Abandoned, unless it is has a working demo. Any objections?

For the rest, I will make some of these changes tonight. My understanding of the consensus is this:

  • Disperse Polling Board topics into Forum Announcements and Delete
  • Merge Game Maker into Other Game Making Programs
  • Merge In the News and Elitist Debate into "News & Debate"
  • Disperse Ask a Stereotype & Forum Games topics into Community and delete them.
  • Create New Category for Secret Boards and move EA, RMRK Advanced, Greek Project, etc. to it.
  • Strike's Sticky suggestions

Things still under discussion are the following:

  • Anything else to do with RM Boards - Resources, Scripts, etc.
  • Merge Community and General Chat into "Community Chat"
  • Make "News & Debate" a child board of Community Chat
  • Disperse topics in the child boards of Trading into the parent and delete the children.
  • Merging Video Games and Entertainment into "Video Games & Entertainment"
  • Creating new Categories to allow minimization rather than total deletion (Malson's suggestion)
  • Archiving strategies (please suggest some topics - I might go through Forum Games and Ask a Stereotype and link to any I think should be archived instead of dispersed)

Please let me know if I am wrong about any of the consensus changes before tonight. Also, I may have missed things, so please point them out to me.

Also, should the Trading board be moved to the hidden boards section? It is technically hidden since only people above a certain post threshold can see it.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 02:11:53 AM by modern algebra »

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I'd also suggest raising the post count requirement for trading and poster board.
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For merging Substantial and New Projects, I was thinking we should make that the basic Projects Board and have Finished Projects be a child Board, rather than the other way around. Any objections? If we do it the other way around, what should we call it? I think "Projects in Progress" might work, but I would be open to suggestions.

Man, where would we be without you, Modern? ;_;

I actually really like the idea of having finished projects as a child board. It always threw me off that they were the first ones I saw for some reason. I'm okay with "Projects in Progress" or maybe "WIP Projects" or something. :)

I'd also suggest raising the post count requirement for trading and poster board.

^ Agreed. Especially for RMRK trading. ._. We don't want anyone seeing our super, dark corner (now that the other super-dark corner has been eliminated).
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Double-posting for organization purposes.

Spoiler for Anything else to do with RM Boards - Resources, Scripts, etc.:
Parent boards are seriously starting to grind my gears. ._. They need to have posts, otherwise they look empty, but they don't always have a clear, consistent purpose. By clicking "scripts", I wouldn't expect the parent board topic to be about scripting help, and then requests/rmvxa/rmvx/rmxp to be child boards of that. It's just a little odd to me. I kinda wish there was a way we could do away with parent board posting and just have child boards. But once again, that might look a little tacky. ;_; Unless we used them for rules and stickies or something important. But even then, it'd still be hollow.

Ranting aside, I'd ultimately be fine with leaving scripts/resources the same. :p

Spoiler for "Community Chat", "News & Debate", "Video Games & Entertainment":
I'm still backing these three merges. :V

Spoiler for Disperse topics in the child boards of Trading into the parent and delete the children:
I kind of  like the use of the child boards here for browsing ease purposes, but I'm not necessarily against the idea of dispersing them. 8)
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In regards to scripts and event systems.... Have you guys thought about possibly doing it up like we have over on CP? It's pretty easy to navigate, and we've never gotten a complaint about how it's organized... Just a thought...
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I don't think we've ever received a complaint about the way our those boards are set up either. Why don't you guys change your boards to like what ours is :mad:

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Why don't you guys change your boards to like what ours is :mad:


Because we're not changing the site around, nor looking from suggestions from users. It was a suggestion. If you don't like the suggestion, simply ignore it =p
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I like that finished projects is the root section, because it gives more exposure to work that people have completed.

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I like that finished projects is the root section, because it gives more exposure to work that people have completed.

I agree with this completely.
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It's starting to look pretty swish.  Updated the poll. Dewmocracy at work.
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Alright, I cleaned up the Projects boards and combined them. I called it "Projects in Progress" for now, but would be open to suggestions for a better name.

Also, so far the votes have gone 6-0 for merging Video Games & Entertainment, so I think I will do that too. I will update the poll.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 05:15:55 PM by modern algebra »

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Well, I like the name Projects in Progress..


As to the merge, I don't think I voted for that, but I think it's a good idea..
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Alright, I added the three easily votable-on changes to the poll and gave each user 3 votes to choose as they wish. If you didn't realize that and only voted for 1, you may remove your vote and vote again. I don't want to disperse the trading boards anymore, but I left it as an option in case I am in the minority.

I think the other things (RM Boards, Archiving, creating new categories) all require more discussion before they can be implemented.

For archiving, would it be a good idea just to create a sticky in this Board where people could post suggestions for archiving topics?

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I love the changes thus far! Lookin' good, Modern! :ma:

Also, I am in favor of making this topic into a sticky. B)
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Yes, and then archive it as soon as the decisions are made.
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I highly approve of the merge; I kinda thought having two separate boards for projects-in-progress was a bit much, to be honest.

Perfect timing, too, since I'm gonna have my game finished in the next 7 days or so. Yaaayy   :blizj: :blizj: :blizj:

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General Chat and Community should be merged, but we should retain the name General Chat. It's clear and all-encompassing, whereas I feel Community Chat isn't and could be seen as nothing more than a board for discussing community-related matters.

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I agree with Irock.

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And I as well.
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DAMMIT, IROCK. THAT'S A HORRIBLE IDEA.

...Just kidding. I agree with it, too.

I just wanted to be different...
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Alright, there weren't any No votes to merging Community and General Chat nor to making News & Debate a child Board of it, so I did both. I agreed with Irock too, so I left it as General Chat. I also made most of the changes to the stickies that Strike recommended, but I left the RMRK Wiki and IRC Quotes & Chatlogs up. However, that does leave us with 7 stickies, so if you guys think those topics or any of the others should be unstickied, please make suggestions.

Also, while this might be contrary to the overall "Simplify" theme of this aptly named thread, I was thinking maybe we could make Bean Bags a parent-level board. It isn't quite as fitting a child to General Chat as it was to Community, and I think it could deserve to be a little more prominent. I don't have any strong desire to do that since I've never really visited that board much, but just wanted to see what you guys think.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 10:27:28 PM by modern algebra »

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I'm not sure about unstickying it, but the title of the IRC Quotes thread needs to have the crankeye.org part removed since the site doesn't work anymore (and FFShrine downvoted all the RMRK quotes into oblivion when it was last working anyway).

Maybe we should consider unstickying Post Your Picture since it gets posted in often enough that it will stay towards the top anyway. The What Are You Eating thread would be a candidate for that too, I think. But I think keeping them all stickied is fine too, so long as we don't add any more.

I can understand moving Bean Bags out and making it its own board. In fact I would vote for that. It no longer fits very well where it is.

I like all the changes so far!
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Well for whatever it's worth:
IMHO What Are You Eating?, Signature And Avatar Rating,  and Post Your Desktop could all be unstickied. I'm torn on Post Your Picture. This would leave RMRK Wiki, the IRC chatlogs thread, and RMRK Member Factfile stickied.  Post Your Picture kinda fits in with the theme I was going for here. Which is basically "Get to know RMRK and it's members"  Since all of those things showcase different facets of our personalities. And the Post Your Picture thread would give you an idea of what the person may look like.  But then I am probably just over thinking. And it isn't like every single RMRK member uses all of those things. (or any of them)

I also agree with bringing Bean Bags out because it is a more serious board. But I don't really care either way so there ya go lol

Man RMRK is looking so organized!  :ladyj:

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I vote for keeping every sticky except RMRK Wiki, which could just be made into an article on the wiki, if it isn't already. There's a very prominent link in RMRK's footer now anyway.

Also maybe Post Your Desktop could be moved to Computing & Technology.

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IMHO What Are You Eating?, Signature And Avatar Rating,  and Post Your Desktop could all be unstickied. I'm torn on Post Your Picture. This would leave RMRK Wiki, the IRC chatlogs thread, and RMRK Member Factfile stickied.  Post Your Picture kinda fits in with the theme I was going for here. Which is basically "Get to know RMRK and it's members"  Since all of those things showcase different facets of our personalities. And the Post Your Picture thread would give you an idea of what the person may look like.  But then I am probably just over thinking. And it isn't like every single RMRK member uses all of those things. (or any of them)

Agreed. *thumps mug*

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i would be a bit more against getting rid of the  child boards in trading if most of the older threads weren't dead links.
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I vote for keeping every sticky except RMRK Wiki, which could just be made into an article on the wiki, if it isn't already. There's a very prominent link in RMRK's footer now anyway.

Also maybe Post Your Desktop could be moved to Computing & Technology.

These are good ideas, I agree with doing them both. Jules' ideas are good too.
:tinysmile:

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Also maybe Post Your Desktop could be moved to Computing & Technology.
That could work, since it's about computer desktops, obviously, and from what I've seen, some of the desktops people here have are pretty nicely designed, and some others who don't personalize often could ask for tips on doing so.

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The vote on the trading boards was divided, so I didn't do anything with them. Anyway, I updated the poll to discuss some of the other changes. Again, you have three votes, and you can change your votes at any time.

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Interesting changes. I actually think I'd really like to see the Bean Bags as its own board. :o

Forum games is a little massive, though, so seeing it dispersed into General Chat could start to look bloated. I don't quite think we should archive it, though, since there's still some things around there that could be enjoyed. I especially grew fond of bluntsword's book cover game. ;_; I kinda like keeping it where it is now, honestly. B)
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I don't like the idea of bean bags as it's own board simply because it's kinda personal sometimes and it really doesn't need to be at the forefront of the forum.
:tinysmile:

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SO! it's been a while, how does everyone think the changes are working out? anything that could be improved?
:tinysmile:

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I don't like the idea of bean bags as it's own board simply because it's kinda personal sometimes and it really doesn't need to be at the forefront of the forum.
I missed this but I completely agree.


I like what has been done so far =)