Age of Monsters and Magic

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Just another RMRK user who is deaf to criticism. Good luck on your game.

Thanks a lot for the good luck wish! :) It means a lot coming from you (still not sarcasm!) Now, I know that I asked you to stop arguing, but I have to point out that you seem to be the deaf one, as I have already said before:
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As I already told you, I'm not developing this game entirely on my own. I am getting honest feedback from my team, who offer it voluntarily upon request. Each day improvements are being made because of their criticisms.
This is my third time bringing this up to you. The only piece of "advice" I have ignored is to not sell the game. Again, I can quote myself on this, and my statement was quite rational:
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Only in extreme circumstances would I instead consider not selling it, and complaints from the community of this site is not an extreme circumstance.
Moving on!
I'll try to stay on topic so, I think what you've said about the game makes it sound great. And I do want to play the game (just because playing indie games is my thing), the choices and alternate outcomes sound cool (emphasis on sound) and I really love visual novel type games, and the fact you're adding combat makes it a whole lot better.

But, it would actually be in your best interest to keep the topic active even if we don't say good things because if you hold off on the demo, especially when we know you did, I doubt anyone (here) would buy it before trying it beforehand to decide whether or not they'd like to purchase it.

Awesome! It's really nice of you to say those things, and I'm glad that the game sounds interesting to you!! That's exactly how I want everyone to feel about this game.
It sounds like the remarks being made on this topic are becoming less vehement, so I may just be here to stay! And don't worry; even if I am convinced to leave from too many harsh comments (seems unlikely right now), I would still release both the demo and the full game. I would be crazy to expect someone to buy the game without having the demo first. They'd have to really trust me to do that, but no one has any reason to really trust me... yet! :)

Sounds like this topic is getting somewhere! Have I earned the respect of this community yet?! :D


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Well, I had actually wrote : "maintain my interest". My interest is set low at the moment, which is about on par with what I give all new RPG Maker projects which have yet to offer much in the way of information or a demonstration.



Perhaps my opinion will become more clear if I give a brief explanation of my decision making process when it comes to video games in general and doubly so for RGP Maker games. First and foremost, I am a very visually oriented person. Therefore, my initial thoughts are about how visually engaging the game is and if I enjoy the art style that is being used.

If the graphics catch my attention then I will move on to the writing style employed to deliver the story and more importantly, the personality of the characters. If the presentation of personalities is solid and the story comes across well, then chances are very high that I will want to play through the game regardless of the offered features.

Also, as someone who tinkers with RPG Maker very often, if the game can make me say : "Wow, how did (he/she) do that?", then I will almost certainly pick up the game, if only to try and figure out how something was done or see what other interesting tidbits the creator has woven into the project.

Textual information is, at best, skimmed for key points and tucked away at the back of my mind. Tutorials are skipped, manuals are ignored unless I cannot figure out how something works by trial and error. The information listed within the original post simply does not give me anything that I really want to see, and the supplied graphics are not sufficient enough to sway my interest from its current position.

Further visual information and especially a demonstration could go very far in helping to change my mind.



Please beware that my expectations are set high for commercial games. It is of my opinion that for-profit games cannot claim the safe harbor that the hobbyist can sail and should be held to a higher standard. If this project had been a non-commercial submission to this message board, I doubt you would have received the negative feedback that you have been given thus far.

At any rate, I've bantered on for too long. I hope that everything goes well with your project and that at some time in the future we will see further information. I personally know how much work goes into creating a game -- especially one of such large size -- so I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

UPDATED 05-29-14


IS YOUR PROJECT OPTIMIZED?
UPDATED 07/04/15 - v2.5

RPG MAKER TOOLBOX
UPDATED 07/04/15 - v1.5

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Criticism isn't criticism when the people giving it to you are sycophants. You've accused me of getting off topic multiple times while doing so yourself, completely moving from even games into films. You're deaf to criticism because you're just rationalizing it all away, except when people say something you agree with. My assumption, then, is that you can't understand anything beyond direct, specific advice. Here you go:

1. Lose the blasted jpegs from your prior games. If you need portraits, don't just blow up a tiny sprite. Put some time into it.
2. Have some uniformity to your art direction. Using a multitude of styles doesn't make something better, it makes it look cobbled together. Specifically in Legion: Tactics, you have all of the following:
   -Sprite-based landscapes (Which are, again, blasted and fuzzy)
   -Digitized avatars (Or what look like digitized avatars)
   -MS Paint lines on a map
   -MS Paint portraits for some reason
   -3D stills for cutscenes
3. Following #2, if you must use two different fonts, never use two different serif or non-serif fonts. This is bad design form. You should also make them look as different from one another as possible. In one screen of Legion: Armada, you have 4 different fonts on screen at the same time! There's no need for this, and two of them are very similar.
4. Also on the art front, there are way too many different window styles. You have a tan, a light blue with dark streaks, and a dark blue with light streaks. Again, uniformity goes a long way.

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Exhydra, you are really fair! Thanks for the explanation.   ^-^ And thanks for the wish of good luck.

I truly wish I could show everyone more. Thing is, the artwork is the major selling point of the game, and artwork (good artwork anyway) takes a good while to create. And it is really fantastic. Yossy, a former moderator here, is the game's artist. But... I have yet to implement any of her drawings for the game, and even if I did, I'd still have little to show, as much more progress still needs to be done. If she dropped out, the game wouldn't be commercial-quality. People care about visuals as much as if not more than the writing, especially in a game like this, so her amazing art is the selling-point.

Most of the bulk for this game so far has been in the coding and the writing department-- not quite as attractive as a screenshot featuring the game's artwork would be.

And as you say, Exhydra, had I not said that this game would be sold, it wouldn't be criticized so strongly-- being that the biggest topic within this... topic... has been that the game will be sold.

Here's a random piece of art by the game's artist. The art of AoMaM looks somewhat similar, but has a very clear artistic style. This image has nothing to do with AoMaM. Of course I'll post relevant images soon. But because people keep saying they need to see something, see this:

http://bon-bon-bunny.deviantart.com/ for more of her work.
I think her game, Futaiten: Book of Days, is still downloadable from this site. It featured a lot of her art.


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Criticism isn't criticism when the people giving it to you are sycophants. You've accused me of getting off topic multiple times while doing so yourself, completely moving from even games into films. You're deaf to criticism because you're just rationalizing it all away, except when people say something you agree with. My assumption, then, is that you can't understand anything beyond direct, specific advice. Here you go:

1. Lose the blasted jpegs from your prior games. If you need portraits, don't just blow up a tiny sprite. Put some time into it.
2. Have some uniformity to your art direction. Using a multitude of styles doesn't make something better, it makes it look cobbled together. Specifically in Legion: Tactics, you have all of the following:
   -Sprite-based landscapes (Which are, again, blasted and fuzzy)
   -Digitized avatars (Or what look like digitized avatars)
   -MS Paint lines on a map
   -MS Paint portraits for some reason
   -3D stills for cutscenes
3. Following #2, if you must use two different fonts, never use two different serif or non-serif fonts. This is bad design form. You should also make them look as different from one another as possible. In one screen of Legion: Armada, you have 4 different fonts on screen at the same time! There's no need for this, and two of them are very similar.
4. Also on the art front, there are way too many different window styles. You have a tan, a light blue with dark streaks, and a dark blue with light streaks. Again, uniformity goes a long way.

I wonder if you have even noticed how politely I respond to the insulting tones you use in every post you send me.
Anywhoozles, yeah I agree with everything you just said. Not because I want you to shut up, but because you are right, those are faults with my old games.

But those games are not this game, and judging a game that you know little about based on another game is not the best method to judge the game. The best way to judge this game would be to look at what this game has to offer, of which you know very little at the moment.

All you care to say is that you don't like my previous games. Even Professor Layton wouldn't be so obsessed with something so irrelevant. Do you think I got no criticism for those games? Well, I did get some. And I always apply criticisms that I get towards my next projects, and sometimes into updates of my existing projects.

Instead of trying to bash me personally and disregard everything I say, please comment on this game. I keep inviting you to, but all you want to talk about is your unconditional dislike for me. :(

Call my team sycophants if you want; I'm sure you've realized by now that I'm immune to insults. And if you think saying that wasn't insulting, then you're, as you would put it, "lying to yourself." I just don't mind arguing with you. As long as you point things out, I will in turn point out whether or not you are right and, apparently and unintentionally, make you madder and madder. So much for my giving you good customer service. ;)

*Edit*
I forgot to mention, Thanks for taking the time to play my games! I'm amazed that you of all people didn't have more quibbles than things like fonts and sucky graphics. AoMaM uses 2 fonts throughout the game, and fantastic artwork. No worries, you crazy guy.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 05:41:28 AM by dragonmagna »


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I'm not mad at all. I don't know why anything that I said would lead you to believe that I was mad. I'm also not arguing with you. I'm telling you things. I hope your project ends up being amazing, and I eat my words. I really do. Anyway, I've spent way too much time in this topic, and am now done.

I didn't play your other games. I went to your blog. I'm playing The Witcher, which also cost $10, by the way.

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Even if everyone who is involved with your project says it is good, doesn't mean it is good. For all I know, you have a bunch of people who are saying it is good to validate their work.

Now, looking at this topic, I find a few constants that i've seen around RMRK a lot.

1. An arrogant newbie (to the site) who wants to be taken seriously despite giving little to no information and not following the rules of our "New Projects" board (which requires a lot more than what you gave)

2. Our main member base (MMB) tearing apart the newbie's work in order to not only remind the poster that nothing is new, but to try and improve the work and make it more accessible to more people, thereby increasing popularity for the creator and their subsequent process.

3. Our MMB being unnecessarily rude about #2 whilst trying to assure themselves that they are being 100% rational (this includes ad hominem attacks)

4. The OP posts several responses claiming that he is very serious and then threatening to leave if he doesn't get nice responses (thereby proving one of several points that our MMB had about the OP)

5. the MMB doesn't care except for one or two people who dig deeper into the topic and give specific feedback (and normally another person who explains why they started to ridicule the OP in the first place)


EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot

6. Several people say that they would love it if the OP was able to deliver all he has promised and saying they will no longer post in the topic. That being said, they likely will not play the game due to the negative experience they have tied with the OP and the OP will not post it here due to his negative experience with RMRK.


I'm just saying this because, well... This is how things are here. If you don't do things by the book and give us something substantial, we will follow these steps, because we are not good people. We will torment you because you cannot follow simple directions.

However, we will also be honest and cruel about why we don't like your product, and you will not like us for it, even if we didn't torment you first. This, we believe, is the only way to get feedback that people will actually follow, as cushioning the blow in any way makes the error seem less substantial and less likely to be fixed because of it.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 05:50:54 AM by Sashikinaroji »
Ok, DON'T EXPECT HELP FROM ME~! I will perhaps rant a bit, but don't expect me to do graphics for you, even if I say I will... I won't.

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I'm not mad at all. I don't know why anything that I said would lead you to believe that I was mad. I'm also not arguing with you. I'm telling you things. I hope your project ends up being amazing, and I eat my words. I really do. Anyway, I've spent way too much time in this topic, and am now done.

The insulting and degrading tone you use brought me to the understanding that you were mad at my reactions to what you have been saying. If you act like this without being mad, I'd hate to put you in a bad mood! :D

But thanks for the polite conclusion to our argument:
"Argument: a disagreement in which different views are expressed, often angrily"
Yep, we just had an argument. :)

Thanks for the kind words. I, too, hope this game will be amazing, and that you eat your words. :)


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There are more than two emotions. I'm just honest, and I suppose a bit jaded. A lot jaded, actually. I'm sorry that you didn't know that, but I see a million topics a year where there is one screenshot, a vague description, and the poster talks about how its going to be the greatest game of all time. Its easier to just fire away and then see what crawls out of the rubble. I'm not the type of person to hold someone's hand and tell them that everything is going to be alright. I'm not mashing the keys in a rage, I'm just chilling here and telling you what I don't like about your games. I admit that I'm a dick sometimes, yes, but again, that comes from the whole "I've seen this a million times before" thing. I forget that new members don't understand that, and it gets trite having to repeat myself all the time.



(and normally another person who explains why they started to ridicule the OP in the first place)
Thus, the cycle is complete.

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Even if everyone who is involved with your project says it is good, doesn't mean it is good. For all I know, you have a bunch of people who are saying it is good to validate their work.

Thing is, my team is constantly telling me to fix and improve things. They are being great in helping this game to reach a level I'd never get to on my own.

By the way, can you point me out to the rules for the New Forums board?? I thought I read them, but maybe I read something else. And aren't you backseat moderating? Ah well. If I need to add more necessary information, I will do as much as I can as soon as a mod tells me to.

Also, putting a game online for criticism isn't about getting nice responses. I've been replying to this topic all day, and most of the MMB, as you call it, has not been saying nice things. But if they want to talk about nothing but unrelated things and how "stupid" I am for wanting to sell the game, it would be pointless for me to stay, as they would have already made their decisions about me and this game.
However, it has become clear that some members are interested in this game, and have stopped with the pointless insults, so I think there is good reason for me to stay and update the topic as I can.


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There are more than two emotions. I'm just honest, and I suppose a bit jaded. A lot jaded, actually. I'm sorry that you didn't know that, but I see a million topics a year where there is one screenshot, a vague description, and the poster talks about how its going to be the greatest game of all time. Its easier to just fire away and then see what crawls out of the rubble. I'm not the type of person to hold someone's hand and tell them that everything is going to be alright. I'm not mashing the keys in a rage, I'm just chilling here and telling you what I don't like about your games. I admit that I'm a dick sometimes, yes, but again, that comes from the whole "I've seen this a million times before" thing. I forget that new members don't understand that, and it gets trite having to repeat myself all the time.



(and normally another person who explains why they started to ridicule the OP in the first place)
Thus, the cycle is complete.

Way to man up, Professor Holkeye! We're friends now. It's official.


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By the way, can you point me out to the rules for the New Forums board?? I thought I read them, but maybe I read something else. And aren't you backseat moderating? Ah well. If I need to add more necessary information, I will do as much as I can as soon as a mod tells me to.

Y'know what, you're right, the only people who's opinion matters is the Mod's... Speaking of which, Holk is the SM you've been butting heads with and saying is being immature and rude, and the people who have been saying you should pursue it are people who have no special access (some members get that if they donate or something, idk) so... That basically means that you shouldn't pursue it because the SM said so.

So, how about this: When someone tells you why you're being ridiculed, don't fucking ridicule them back for it, huh?
Ok, DON'T EXPECT HELP FROM ME~! I will perhaps rant a bit, but don't expect me to do graphics for you, even if I say I will... I won't.

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So, how about this: When someone tells you why you're being ridiculed, don't fucking ridicule them back for it, huh?

I haven't been. Like Professor Holkeye, I have not been angry in my responses, and actually have been pretty cheerful in them! Or at least that's what I've been aiming for. Sometimes establishing the right tone is hard to do.

I hope that if anyone thinks I am ridiculing them, they will let me know! I would say that's the last thing I'm trying to do but that would be incorrect because that is the opposite of what I'm trying to do. What I've been trying to do in my posts and responses is thank those who have made fair assessments and comments, and calm those who have accused me of something or had some wild judgment.

I have not been trying to be arrogant, as you have told me I am, but really I've been trying to seem (and be) professional and helpful. If anyone feels insulted, ridiculed, or at all bad because of me or this topic, let me know and I will apologize!


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You've not been too bad, but that tongue-in-cheek comment about the moderation pissed me off. I was trying to tell you not really why I think you've been insulted, but the general ideas, and letting you know that it isn't personal and not to take it as such.

And for that matter, if you read through, it basically tells you that you need screens (a pic of your, I assume, save menu doesn't count because it isn't really content we can base anything on) and a story (which, you basically told us there is none, defeating the purpose. Even if it's not forced to follow story, you have to have one) and then you have the gall to come here and say that you're right and everyone else is just nitpicking (unless they say you're doing good).

Now, when it comes down to it, someone who is arrogant is: Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. And that's what you have going on for you, based on what you're telling us in your subtext, that this is the best, most amazing game ever and anyone who didn't think it would pan out had a "wild judgement" because they don't think RM games are worth money.



Ok, DON'T EXPECT HELP FROM ME~! I will perhaps rant a bit, but don't expect me to do graphics for you, even if I say I will... I won't.

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1. An arrogant newbie (to the site) who wants to be taken seriously despite giving little to no information and not following the rules of our "New Projects" board (which requires a lot more than what you gave)
basically rmrk summed up.

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Exactly. As Pacman pointed out earlier in the topic, a topic shouldn't be made without there being substantial content to show off, or else it will be mocked, which has clearly been demonstrated so far. Why reveal everything about the game bit by bit, only to be mocked and insulted for it until I have the substantial content I need?
Hang on, when did I say that? You can reveal things bit by bit as long as you're making progress and you're rather frequent about it. I don't mean post every day 'I FINISHED A MAP yayz', but like once every two weeks or even less frequent is okay.
The problem I pointed out in your project was that you promised an epic game with 30 in-depth stories and presented a HUD. In comparison to normal, 1-story projects, that's like saying 'I'm making a game set in old times. It'll be long and you have to pay for it.'
And people don't really give a damn about people who say that. Because you promised a lot more, you need to show us what the hell you can actually do and why we shouldn't mock you.

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You've not been too bad, but that tongue-in-cheek comment about the moderation pissed me off. I was trying to tell you not really why I think you've been insulted, but the general ideas, and letting you know that it isn't personal and not to take it as such.

And for that matter, if you read through, it basically tells you that you need screens (a pic of your, I assume, save menu doesn't count because it isn't really content we can base anything on) and a story (which, you basically told us there is none, defeating the purpose. Even if it's not forced to follow story, you have to have one) and then you have the gall to come here and say that you're right and everyone else is just nitpicking (unless they say you're doing good).

Now, when it comes down to it, someone who is arrogant is: Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. And that's what you have going on for you, based on what you're telling us in your subtext, that this is the best, most amazing game ever and anyone who didn't think it would pan out had a "wild judgement" because they don't think RM games are worth money.

Well, I can't say you aren't entitled to your own opinions!

Hang on, when did I say that?

Games aspiring to be this epic have to have had MUCH more progress before they can be posted and not mocked.

Whether or not any person here mocks me is actually a decision made entirely by them, not necessarily by something I have done.


By the way, can anyone tell me what I put in my first post that makes everyone think I take myself too seriously and think this is the best game ever made? I never said that directly... but if I unintentionally implied it somewhere, I would love to be informed of that so I can take it out.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 01:40:00 AM by dragonmagna »


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Oh and here's a screenshot for you visual fanatics--



As I've said about the other "screenshots," this is just a work in progress.
There actually is a load of progress made on this game. Most of it is in writing and coding, though, which people care much less about than seeing fancy visuals and artwork, of which there is an equal abundance. It just hasn't all been made yet. That's why I don't have very much to show off just yet.


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"an heroic"?

also I don't understand the blue boxes with the class name and stats. it should look the same as the rest of it, the old paper.

poor design.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 01:48:11 AM by Firerain »

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"an heroic"?
In the English language, the letter H is treated like a vowel. Sometimes it does sound funny, as in this case. Because of the funniness, it has become acceptable to use "a" instead "an" when the first letter of the next word is an H. If I used the word "honorable" instead of "heroic," the sentence wouldn't sound funny at all. ;)

Quote
also I don't understand the blue boxes with the class name and stats. it should look the same as the rest of it, the old paper.

poor design.

Think so? I didn't want it to look too plain or boring. I'll consider making it the same parchment style, and compare the before and after to see which looks better.


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And again, I see at least 3 different, yet similar fonts.

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And again, I see at least 3 different, yet similar fonts.

I see 2 fonts, 1 with italic text. ;)
If the high number of fonts (2) becomes especially distracting or ugly, I'll certainly change it.

Like with having blue windows, the two fonts used are meant to keep the appearance from being droll.


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3, at least.

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3, at least.

Your #1 is the same as your #2. It's italic. That's what I just said. There are two fonts, one of which is italic, in this screen.
Care to bring up something else?

Edit-
Oh I hadn't noticed you also pointed to the weird G! As I said, every image I've posted is not finalized. But everybody has been freaking out about lack of images, I thought I'd give everyone a taste of what it's like so far.


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Italic counts as another font. I know it doesn't really make sense, but it does. And they're all serif fonts, too. I do like the portrait, and the way it extrudes from the bounding box on the top though. That looks good.