Gay or Straight?

I have read an interesting article about heterosexual men who are attracted to transsexual women. There are many heterosexual men who buy transsexual porn. It is known that the typical homosexual do not find transsexual women attracted because of their feminine features. Do you think these men are actually homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual? Maybe just curious?
http://www.examiner.com/x-18935-Phoenix-Transsexual-Relationships-Examiner~y2009m8d27-Mans-Secret-Love-of-Transsexual-Women-Do-new-trends-predict-a-second-Sexual-Revolution

http://www.examiner.com/x-18935-Phoenix-Transsexual-Relationships-Examiner~y2009m8d30-PART-2--Mans-secret-love-of-transsexual-women-Do-new-trends-predict-a-second-rexual-revolution


Discuss!

Hmph. It sounds like a fetish to me.

While reading the articles you posted, I couldn't help but draw parralells to people who also seek out things like BDSM, latex, feet, or any other uncommon sexual practice. I would argue that no second sexual revolution is coming, at least not in the context of the sexRev of the late 60's and early 70's. If anything, this may hinder the acceptance of Transgender people into mainstream society, since they may now be looked at as subsidising "unwholesome" or "dirty" sex for men by the more conservative elements of our society, a viewpoint I personally find appalling and unacceptable.

Coming from the standpoint of a  mostly straight male, I find nothing particularly exciting about sexual contact with a transgender woman. I suppose that should the occasion arise, (I would like to think) I would see the person as female. I would certainly be interested in that person's experience in transitioning.

It should not be overlooked that men seeking porno are generally looking for entertainment, to satisfy sexual fantasy. Similarly, IMO, men seeking transgender porn may be trying to satisfy their own desire for femininity. Either that, or attemping to identify their homosexual urges with a preson who is visually female, assuming they have issues with said homosexual urges. My opinion.

...a straight guy asked me out the other day.

Also, happy National Coming Out Day.

If he asked you out as a relationship basis, like a date, then he is not straight. He is either bi or gay. I'm not going to go into discussion about how there are a ton of other ways to call it this, but either bi or gay. Unless he just wanted to actually hang out and do actual guy stuff.

Meh, I don't really have too much of an opinion on the articles, but I'll agree with M00s that it sounds like a fetish. I think a fetish kind of falls out of a category for straight or gay. I think you can be straight as an arrow but just have a thing for chicks with dicks i suppose. doesn't mean he's gay, just means he likes one thing about it. I don't really have evidence or good reasons for this lol, i'm just kinda speculating.

If he asked you out as a relationship basis, like a date, then he is not straight. He is either bi or gay. I'm not going to go into discussion about how there are a ton of other ways to call it this, but either bi or gay.

No, if I were an "actual guy," and dressed and acted accordingly, he definitely would not have asked me out.
A gay man might have.
Whereas a bisexual man would be attracted either way, if not somewhat confused.

If someone looks like a woman, and acts like a woman, chances are, only people who like women are going to be attracted.
A gay man, whether or not he is aware that the woman has a penis under her skirt, will not be attracted... because he likes men.

Of course, there's also the possibility of a straight man making advances on a woman without even knowing that she's biologically male, in which case, they may be repulsed upon discovering that the woman is not technically a "she," but some open-minded men can learn to accept that.
Ever seen "The Crying Game?"

I think you can be straight as an arrow but just have a thing for chicks with dicks i suppose. doesn't mean he's gay, just means he likes one thing about it.

I think you just contradicted your first point.

You failed to mention you were dressed as a girl. I did not contradict myself.

I think it all depends on one's point of view. First off, all 3 of the transgender people I know (sorry, Dertt, 4) prefer to use the pronoun of the gender they identify with. This means, at least to me, that they ARE that gender. And secondly, if a straight man hits on a TG woman without knowing her transition status, it is because he sees her as a genuine girl- you know, feminine and pretty and shit. Point being, he's hoping that ultimately, there will be sex involved, and it will be with a woman who has a vagina.

If on the other hand, the man KNOWINGLY hits on a TG woman simply because she is TG, that indicates a need for something different to excite him, and that psycological component is a fetish. It is not, however, homosexual unless the man is seeking contact with male genitals in which case the man's desire is a homosexual behavior.

In other words, if you are a man who likes only vag, you are straight. If you are a man who likes only penis, you are gay. If you are a man who likes women who were once men, you have a fetish.

...a straight guy asked me out the other day.

And for what it's worth, I think you look like a genuine girl when you dress that way.

As far as strict reality goes I am a straight man with a penis fetish. I am not attracted to the male body except the male genitals. A gay man would, as some have said here, look for a relationship with a guy because they think men are attractive in general. For me, feminine features are pretty much what I like, except of course the genitalia. As I stated before, I prefer the male genitalia, and the female sex is just "meh" to me. So I'm in a peculiar position regarding this but I wouldn't call myself gay, more like Transgender Admirer.

So you're gay and you like feminine guys rather than masculine guys.  It's still gay.  Sexual preference is about Sex Organs, not body type, body type is personal preference.

A dick in the mouth is still a dick in the mouth, no matter what it's attached to.

So you're gay and you like feminine guys rather than masculine guys.  It's still gay.  Sexual preference is about Sex Organs, not body type, body type is personal preference.

What if the person considers themself the other gender?

So you're gay and you like feminine guys rather than masculine guys.  It's still gay.  Sexual preference is about Sex Organs, not body type, body type is personal preference.

What if the person considers themself the other gender?

it depends on their physical gender, you aren't sexually attracted to someone's personality, you're sexually attracted to their body.

Also it's not about one person, it's about the gender in general.  If you're attracted to the same gender at all and would have sex with that person, then you are at least bisexual, it doesn't matter if nobody else turns you on.

I don't think it's really necessary (or logical) to strictly categorise sexualities. From what this guy describes, he is hardly gay. He's not even bi really, given that he has no or little attraction to actual men except for their penises.

So what is he? Who cares.

I'm with Chewey on this one.


How many [straight] men can say they aren't attracted to Robert Downey Jr., amirite? :3

lol, well, I would say the use of the word 'attraction' is different here. I'm attracted to his personality via things I may have read, have been told or have seen, but I am not physically attracted to any man. ever. I can only say that I can have a strong liking to a man via certain traits they have, but it's not like I find a dude's ass attractive, or any physical feature for that matter. If I judge a man's physical attractiveness, I always base it off of what I think a woman would look for, but I'm usually wrong anyways lol.

Hahah, yes, you are totally correct.

A dick in the mouth is still a dick in the mouth, no matter what it's attached to.

A dick in the mouth is still a dick in the mouth, no matter what it's attached to.

That doesn't say much of anything, but okay.

Nature or nurture?

There are arguments that (homo)sexuality comes from our genetic makeup. Personally I don't think it's that simple. If you ask me there's a long and gradual chemical process taking place throughout our younger development, and continuing into our adulthood, which has an effect on the kinds of things we are attracted to. I think this chemical stuff going on might be vaguely affected by our genetics, but on the whole it's a bigger process than that. I think it also has to do with our experiences growing up and such.

I do think there is a connection between (homo)sexuality and TG issues. They are seperate issues, to be sure, but there is a connection. A high percentage of gay men choose to act in a quite feminine manner. You could perhaps attribute that to the influences from gay community at large... perhaps it stems from the gay community being in the minority and hence feeling the need to stick out, the need for a 'gay identifier' which lets other gay men know the score.

Complicated issues here.

In any case, I think that willys look better than vajayjays. But I love pussy.

It is not a complicated issue. If you like dick, you are gay. If you like pussy, you are straight. If you like both, you are bi. That's it. People try to complicate it with these stupid labels like "pansexual" and other shit, but those are the three choices. Stop complicating something that is simple.

/agree

It is not a complicated issue. If you like dick, you are gay. If you like pussy, you are straight. If you like both, you are bi. That's it. People try to complicate it with these stupid labels like "pansexual" and other shit, but those are the three choices. Stop complicating something that is simple.

You missed the point. It's not simple. This guy likes penis but not guys. How is he gay at all? How is that even bi? What the fuck sexuality isn't simple you retards !_!

The point was you don't need to (nor SHOULD you) categorise it (including categories such as straight, gay, bi). It's not like I was advocating more labels like pansexual or whatever.

It is not a complicated issue. If you like dick, you are gay. If you like pussy, you are straight. If you like both, you are bi. That's it. People try to complicate it with these stupid labels like "pansexual" and other shit, but those are the three choices. Stop complicating something that is simple.

You missed the point. It's not simple. This guy likes penus but not guys. How is he gay at all? How is that even bi? What the fuck sexuality isn't simple you retards !_!

The point was you don't need to (nor SHOULD you) categorise it (including categories such as straight, gay, bi). It's not like I was advocating more labels like pansexual or whatever.

man likes penus = gay.

Chewey, explain how a man liking penis is not gay.

Because he doesn't like dudes.

Explain why you're all so retarded !_!

That didn't explain anything. Liking a penis is the same as liking a guy. They're only on men whether or not who it's attached to actually looks like a man or not. It's a sexual organ, if you're attracted to it, you're gay. There is no in between; there is no grey area, unless you can explain, which clearly, you cannot do. All you can do is "WAH, YOU'RE RETARDS BECAUSE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME", and that's hardly a debate.

He likes dicks, but doesn't like men, so you're saying that he likes men that look like women that have dicks.?Those are still men. He likes them and is therefore gay.

Because he doesn't like dudes.

but he likes penis.

That didn't explain anything. Liking a penus is the same as liking a guy.

Wrong. Rest of your post is invalid.

Sexual attraction is just that: sexual. I'm sorry, chewey, but you're wrong.

Male (?) refers to the sex of an organism, or part of an organism, which produces small mobile gametes, called spermatozoa.

Homosexuality is romantic or sexual attraction or behavior among members of the same sex.

Male is the same gender as Male
Male likes penus which only Male have.
thus
Male = Homosexual

He likes dicks, but doesn't like men, so you're saying that he likes men that look like women that have dicks.?Those are still men. He likes them and is therefore gay.

That didn't explain anything. Liking a penus is the same as liking a guy.

Liking a girl who got herself a dick makes you gay, then?

It has a functional dick, then yeah. Unless it's a strap-on, then it's weird, but then he'd be into chicks and like dildos.

Sexual attraction is just that: sexual. I'm sorry, chewey, but you're wrong.

This doesn't mean anything. At all.

Male (?) refers to the sex of an organism, or part of an organism, which produces small mobile gametes, called spermatozoa.

Homosexuality is romantic or sexual attraction or behavior among members of the same sex.

Male is the same gender as Male
Male likes penus which only Male have.
thus
Male = Homosexual

Liking penus is not the same as liking men. You're wrong. Stop trying to make it so simple when it's really, really not. Sexualities should not be strictly defined. If you want to quote the wiki article, you can't really cut out the tiny part that supports your argument when it's taken out of context. Here, read this:

As a sexual orientation, homosexuality refers to "an enduring pattern of or disposition to experience sexual, affectional, or romantic attractions primarily to" people of the same sex

This guy doesn't desire anything about men other than the occasional penis. This isn't homosexuality. This isn't bisexuality. It doesn't matter what it is.

It has a functional dick, then yeah. Unless it's a strap-on, then it's weird, but then he'd be into chicks and like dildos.

Derp.

You're not even debating anything. You're only telling us we're wrong when you cannot support anything you say. The only way I could agree with you is if the guy had an obsession with phallic objects in general and not just a man's dick, because then his obsession isn't sexual as much as it is just an obsession with a sexual looking shape.

You're not even debating anything. You're only telling us we're wrong when you cannot support anything you say. The only way I could agree with you is if the guy had an obsession with phallic objects in general and not just a man's dick, because then his obsession isn't sexual as much as it is just an obsession with a sexual looking shape.

It's hard to debate with "a dick is a dick" and "sexual attraction is sexual attraction." That really doesn't mean anything at all.

I debated with NAM. Please reread what I said.

You're an idiot if you think being attracted to a woman with a penus means you're gay.

There you go, post explained. I hope you realise none of your arguments have amounted to anything more "LIKING penus MEANS YOU'RE GAY YOU'RE WRONG" so you cannot really question my arguments.

You're not even debating anything. You're only telling us we're wrong when you cannot support anything you say. The only way I could agree with you is if the guy had an obsession with phallic objects in general and not just a man's dick, because then his obsession isn't sexual as much as it is just an obsession with a sexual looking shape.

Yeaaah, no.

Gender: Social identity upheld by appearance.

Sex: Genitalia.

The two are separate. Saying "gay" is not reliable because one, gay means attracted to all characteristics of men. A gay man does not look for large breasts or hips, or heavily feminized features. Nor does a lesbian just look for women and expect them to be men in terms of everything but vagina.

That would be idiotic and contradictory.

Therefore it is not GAY, even though it is male-male. It is NOT, however, man-man. Because male is a sex and man is a gender. A transgender (my fetish) is male but a woman. It's just like the relationship between a straight male and straight female and they act the same.

Socially, then, it is still straight, and in most physical ways it is straight. I could fool people in this thread with transgender that look so much like female sexed persons you'd question yourself. So, calling it gay is really contradictory except for, of course, the penis aspect. But you cannot define it socially as gay because the roles are straight, and most of the characteristics are from the straight side of the fence.

If you like dicks and not vaginas, you're gay. Better face it now.

Are you trolling or are you really just this awful?

It's not awful, man. It's just true.

I think he's just trolling

Well, I hope so anyway.

I am failing to understand how it's not homosexual to want to have sex with someone who has the same reproductive organs as you, considering that's what homosexuality is.

Yeaaah, no.

Gender: Social identity upheld by appearance.

Sex: Genitalia.

The two are separate. Saying "gay" is not reliable because one, gay means attracted to all characteristics of men. A gay man does not look for large breasts or hips, or heavily feminized features. Nor does a lesbian just look for women and expect them to be men in terms of everything but uhu.

That would be idiotic and contradictory.

Therefore it is not GAY, even though it is male-male. It is NOT, however, man-man. Because male is a sex and man is a gender. A transgender (my fetish) is male but a woman. It's just like the relationship between a straight male and straight female and they act the same.

Socially, then, it is still straight, and in most physical ways it is straight. I could fool people in this thread with transgender that look so much like female sexed persons you'd question yourself. So, calling it gay is really contradictory except for, of course, the penus aspect. But you cannot define it socially as gay because the roles are straight, and most of the characteristics are from the straight side of the fence.

Social aspect doesn't define sexuality, the uh SEX aspect does.  You know, hence the word SEXuality.

From where I'm sitting, it looks like you're trying to convince yourself that liking dick and not vagina isn't gay.

You're not even debating anything. You're only telling us we're wrong when you cannot support anything you say. The only way I could agree with you is if the guy had an obsession with phallic objects in general and not just a man's dick, because then his obsession isn't sexual as much as it is just an obsession with a sexual looking shape.

Yeaaah, no.

Gender: Social identity upheld by appearance.

Sex: Genitalia.

Wow, way to incorrectly define each word. You're just making that up now. Gender is the same thing as sex. Oh wait, here, let me quote actual sources:

Spoiler for:

gen·der    (j?n'd?r)   
n. 
Grammar

A grammatical category used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.

One category of such a set.

The classification of a word or grammatical form in such a category.

The distinguishing form or forms used.

The condition of being female or male; sex.

Females or males considered as a group: expressions used by one gender.

Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.

The condition of being female or male; sex.

Females or males considered as a group: expressions used by one gender.

gender

A grammatical category indicating the sex, or lack of sex, of nouns and pronouns. The three genders are masculine, feminine, and neuter. He is a masculine pronoun; she is a feminine pronoun; it is a neuter pronoun. Nouns are classified by gender according to the gender of the pronoun that can substitute for them. In English, gender is directly indicated only by pronouns.

gender 
c.1300, from O.Fr. gendre, from stem of L. genus (gen. generis) "kind, sort, gender," also "sex" (see genus); used to translate from Gk. Aristotle's grammatical term genos. As sex took on erotic qualities in 20c., gender came to be used for "sex of a human being," often in feminist writing with reference to social attributes as much as biological qualities; this sense first attested 1963. Gender-bender is first attested 1980, with reference to pop star David Bowie.

OH WOW THIS ONE LITERALLY SAYS GENDER = SEX

Main Entry: gen·der
Pronunciation: 'jen-d&r
Function: noun
1 : SEX 1
2 : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

gender gen·der (j?n'd?r)
n.

The sex of an individual, male or female, based on reproductive anatomy.

Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.

OH WAIT WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN? It means, if you have a functional DICK you are a MAN. If you were a woman and got a dick, you are NOW a man. So yes chewey, wanting to be someone who looks like a woman, while clothed, but has male reproductive organs, and is a man, makes you gay.

Now, before you go on all about transgenders, you take this two ways. Either a transgender is a person who, at the time, currently has both reproductive organs, or has 1 set but looks like the opposite (very very often in this case they would prefer to have their gender referred to as the gender they think they should be: ie, a woman ops to have a penis, loses the vagina, and although looks like a woman, he prefers to be called a man.) So in the case of transgenders, you're either both or one or the other, and in this debate, both means nothing. There's no point to even discuss this anyways, unless you just feel like arguing more for no reason poking for new ways to be wrong.

>Implying he said he hates vaginas or women
>Implying he said he would have sex with men

Yeah, you're all not too bright. Basically what it boils down to is this guys preferred sexual partner is a male-to-female transgendered person who still has a penis. If you think this is gay, or that it can be strictly defined as any of the three typical sexualities (hetero, homo, bi) you're all beyond help. Try reading what he said next time, though.

Derp derp derp.

>Implying he said he hates vaginas or women

For me, feminine features are pretty much what I like, except of course the genitalia.

>Implying he said he would have sex with men

penis fetish

Yeah, you're all not too bright. Basically what it boils down to is this guys preferred sexual partner is a male-to-female transgendered person who still has a penus. If you think this is gay, or that it can be strictly defined as any of the three typical sexualities (hetero, homo, bi) you're all beyond help. Try reading what he said next time, though.

Derp derp derp.

a man engages in sexual intercourse with a human being with a penis (man).  homosexual intercourse. (gay)
a man engaegs in sexual interourse with a human being witha  vagina (woman) heterosexual intercourse. (straight)

also bisexual just means the person likes both sets of genitalia, personal preference has nothing to do with the classification of sexuality, as it is subjective and thus unable to define.  however the sexual acts themselves -can- be defined based on the sex of the people involved.

Penis + Penis = Gay

Where NAMKOR and Chewey seem to miss the point is that your sources are really vague hunks of information.

Let me point out what I am saying here, with my own source. Wikipedia.

One's sex is determined by genetic codes:

        * One's biological features are programmed by these codes.
        * We use these biological features to classify male and female sex.
        * These features include differences in external genitalia and internal sex organs, hormones, percentage of body fat, muscles, amount of body hair and brain development.
        * Regardless of gender assignment surgery, sex is permanent.
        * Sex is an individual property.

One's gender is more complex than one's sex:

        * Individuals are not born with a gender, only stronger or weaker predispositions for a gender.
        * Sex determines how likely a person is to fit the gender-role, but not a guarantee.
        * The meaning of gender is neither universal nor stable.[1]
        * Gender refers to a culture's meaning for sex.
        * Gender is partially constructed by society, while sex is entirely biological.
        * Each culture prescribes meanings for one's sex, assigning them certain qualities, activities and identities.
        * These meanings are embedded into the fabric of each culture's social life.
        * Each culture perceives these meanings as "natural" or "right".
        * We constantly receive messages within our culture reinforcing these messages.
        * We often adopt the gender that our culture has assigned to us based on our sex.
        * Although it doesn't always happen, these social prescriptions generally succeed to ensure most females will become feminine and most males will become masculine.

This is all I am talking about, people. I don't define a "man" or "guy" as someone who has a male sex (genitalia). What we call a MAN in our society reflects our culture. If our culture treated transgenders like men WHICH WE DO NOT, then yeah, I'd say the person is a man. In some cultures they have FIVE genders! Five.

So, by the strict definition, you could call it homosexual, I will concede this, but not gay, because gay men are as a norm interested in other gay men! Not people who look like women in nearly all ways. I have a gay friend and he can't stand transgender at all. For him IT REMINDS HIM TOO MUCH OF WOMEN which he does not like.

And NAMKOR, way to presume about what I would do. I could have sex with a woman. I just prefer her other characteristics more than her vagina. Also, I doubt I'd be comfortable having sex with a man, because they are as a rule for the most part too ugly. XD I'm not kidding here. Guys are ugly besides their junk, and I just wouldn't see myself get involved. My penis fetish involves the transgender almost exclusively. They look and act like women, people. Sheesh. Not that "hard" to get I hope?
o
Transgenders are male, but not a cultural man and have many biologically female traits through hormones. I'm culturally straight, biologically homosexual.

If you'd sleep with a man or a woman, you're bisexual then.

P.S. wikipedia is one of the worse sources ever for actual research. Fail.

P.S.S. I used wikipedia links earlier.

so...

Where NAMKOR and Chewey seem to miss the point is that your sources are really vague hunks of information.

P.S. wikipedia is one of the worse sources ever for actual research. Fail.

Spoiler for:

A common question posed by laymen and students of social sciences raises the distinction between the term “sex” and the term “gender”. Many people use the two words incorrectly, as interchangeable, when they signify two very different things.
Sex – Determined by Physical Anatomy, Biological Description

Sex is determined biologically and refers to an individuals physical anatomy – genitalia, facial hair, body structure and composition. Sex refers to the biological characteristics that separate male from female.

Sex is not culturally influenced in a direct way (although certain cultures believe in certain practices or influences impact the sex of a child during pregnancy) and is normally considered to be completely biological in nature, uninfluenced by cultures, norms, values, or mores.
Gender – Determined by Social, Cultural Affiliation, Learned Behaviours

Gender is determined by social interaction, exchange, and absorption of peer, familial, and larger cultural values that determine gender identity and affiliation.

Gender can be considered fluid in the sense that one can challenge their own gender identity, in some instances holding it completely opposed to their sex.

There, Suite 101 also agrees with me.

Spoiler for:

http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/index.html

What do we mean by "sex" and "gender"?

Sometimes it is hard to understand exactly what is meant by the term "gender", and how it differs from the closely related term "sex".

"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women. (Objection here at the usage of men or women; it's a gender-sex loaded term)

To put it another way:

"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories.

[/quote]

So does World Health Organization.

Whether you want to use their phrasing and say masculine or feminine as man or woman, they still basically agree with me. Sex and gender are not interchangeable words. One is created by society. And one is biological. This is why, although a person who is into transgender can be called homosexual (but perhaps fits in with the LGBT term "Queer" which is more vague) they cannot be accurately called gay, because gay is a social construct used by male men to find other male men, not male women.

so what you're saying is you prefer dicks but would have sex with a woman (complete with uhu) correct?

If yes -
    you are bisexual
If not -
    If you'd only have sex with something that has a dick -
            you are sexually gay
    If you'd only have sex with something that has a uhu -
            you are sexually straight
else -
    you are sexually asexual.
    
Masculinity versus Femininity in sexual preference is subjective and thus does not get included in the discussion of 'sexual' sexuality, since you find a difference between sex and gender.

The fact still remains that you still like dick. You can call who ever has the dick whatever you want, but they're biologically a male and therefore it is gay.

If you also enjoy vagina, you are bisexual.

so what you're saying is you prefer dicks but would have sex with a woman (complete with uhu) correct?

If yes -
    you are bisexual
If not -
    If you'd only have sex with something that has a dick -
            you are sexually gay
    If you'd only have sex with something that has a uhu -
            you are sexually straight
else -
    you are sexually asexual.
    
Masculinity versus Femininity in sexual preference is subjective and thus does not get included in the discussion of 'sexual' sexuality, since you find a difference between sex and gender.

Masculinity is the gender role of MAN.
Femininity is the gender role of WOMAN.

Homosexual, not gay. I don't fit in with the gay community. Why do people use the term lesbian if it just means the same as the term "gay" in our culture? It's a different group.

Not all homosexuals are gay (a term for gay men), even though all gays are homosexual. They could be lesbian, like above, which is a different cultural group I also obviously don't belong in, or some catch-all middle category. I think this catch all category is called Queer in the LGBT slang, which is just a vague sort of homosexuality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer#As_a_contemporary_antonym_of_heteronormative

I found this, I know it's wikipedia, but it's pointing out the same meaning I'm looking for and have seen before, not just on wikipedia. Basically it means people who don't fit in generally with heteronormative ideas.

Lesbian is basically gay for women. Homosexual = BOTH Gay and Lesbian. Gay = man on man, Lesbian = woman on woman. THAT'S WHY WE USE THE TERM LESBIAN. You're obviously not a lesbian, unless you're a woman and you're into pussy.

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED? What is this?? "Not all homosexuals are gay?" Are you seriously debating in this topic right now. Really. WOW.

Lesbian is basically gay for women. Homosexual = BOTH Gay and Lesbian. Gay = man on man, Lesbian = woman on woman. THAT'S WHY WE USE THE TERM LESBIAN. You're obviously not a lesbian, unless you're a woman and you're into pussy.

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED? What is this?? "Not all homosexuals are gay?" Are you seriously debating in this topic right now. Really. WOW.

Homosexuality is referring to genitals only, whereas socially there is more to a fucking PERSON than their crotch junk. I know this is hard for you to grasp. If a person takes on a different gender role, complete with looking and acting like a woman, you will treat them like a woman.

It may be so fucking crazy to accept when you've fucked your own semantics up so bad due to slang not being complex enough to describe human beings, but it occurs. A gay man, IS NOT LOOKING, FOR NICE TITS OR CURVES. How hard is that to get? It's a fucking different category.

Homosexuality is not strictly gay or lesbian. It is a part of a whole spectrum of sexuality. Dr. Kinsey, anyone? Sexuality is not as simple as straight or gay. Obviously that's how bisexuality (for one) exists and hundreds of weird fetishes.

Spoiler for:

"If I Like Transsexuals, What Does That Make Me?"

Male trans admirers are often confronted with their own sense of homophobia with regards to themselves, either afraid of possibly being gay or ashamed of being somewhat transgressive.  I tend to think of orientation as a continuum too, with homosexuality and heterosexuality at opposite ends, and very few people actually being strictly one or the other.  A person could be attracted to women 95% of the time, for example, but still encounter the occasional exception where they might be curious about a relationship or encounter with a man.  Transwomen cloud this a little, usually being predominantly feminine, and many admirers are still closer toward the “straight” side of the spectrum in terms of what attracts them
http://www.albertatrans.org/admirers.shtml

>Implying he said he hates vaginas or women

For me, feminine features are pretty much what I like, except of course the genitalia.

So you agree with me then? It wasn't hard for me to discern from his posts that he doesn't find men attractive, just their penises (this is now backed up by a post made after yours). It seemed clear to me that he prefers MTF transgendered people, would have sex with a female and would not have sex with a male. This sexuality is not clearly defined by homosexuality nor bisexuality. I'm not sure why it's necessary to bother, either.

>Implying he said he would have sex with men

penus fetish

>Implying he said he would have sex with men. Once again, this has been clarified by a post made after yours.

It's also nice to see you refer MTF transgendered people as men. Nice work.

a man engages in sexual intercourse with a human being with a penus (man).

Wrong.

homosexual intercourse. (gay)

This is why I think we should avoid such strict classification. Technically, both people involved have the same sexual organs. However, it's not as if people define homosexuality strictly by the organs the partners share. Attraction is not purely sexual, nor is it purely physical or mental. It's all those things combined, with varying degrees depending on the person and how deep they wish to appear (I LOVE YOU FOR YOUR MIIIND). To define attraction to three strict definitions is only going to cause confusion and ultimately, separation.

This guy is attracted to the physical body of a female, the mentality/voice of a woman, and the sexual organ of a male. If this guy were to admit to a person on the street that he is homosexual, I doubt any of them would think, "Oh, so he likes transgendered folk?"

Sexuality is not simple and we shouldn't treat it as such. Rather than trying to classify the varying degrees of attraction, we should not bother at all.

a man engaegs in sexual interourse with a human being witha  uhu (woman) heterosexual intercourse. (straight)

Again, a person with a vagina is not necessarily a woman.

also bisexual just means the person likes both sets of genitalia, personal preference has nothing to do with the classification of sexuality

Which is, again, a simple categorisation of a complex sexuality.

If we're quoting wikipedia, read this:

Human sexuality is how people experience the erotic and express themselves as sexual beings.[1] Frequently driven by the desire for sexual pleasure, human sexuality has biological, physical, and emotional aspects.

however the sexual acts themselves -can- be defined based on the sex of the people involved.

I don't think you'd find too many transgendered people happy to be referred to by their original gender. A MTF transgendered person who is attracted to women is a lesbian, not a heterosexual. To say otherwise would be pretty hurtful, I imagine.

So I'll say it again and again and again and again: sexuality is not simple and we should not attempt to define it as such. Hetero-, homo- and bi-sexuality are far too limited in defining how each partner sees not only the other, but also themselves.

penus + penus = Gay

Derp.

If you'd sleep with a man or a woman, you're bisexual then.

He just said he wouldn't sleep with a man.

P.S. wikipedia is one of the worse sources ever for actual research. Fail.

Somebody doesn't know how to cite sources.

P.S.S.

Post Script Script

as far as seeing MTF as men is concerned, when intercourse is concerned, a male body with a male body is homosexual, no matter who feels what concerning them.  I agree with the idea of gender identity making people's feelings different, but no matter how much they feel different their body is the same so the same base -act- of sex exists. 

Sexuality in the terms I'm speaking in is concerning only the Act of sex between two humans of a given gender, not the subjective social interpretations of people's personalities and body type.  The only classifications that can be given are for the act, because there are constants.  Male and Female.  These things are easily defined.  I'm saying that the act of sex between two beings with penises is Homosexual.

also unless he means he has a shamanistic focus that is shaped like a penus, "penus fetish" means he'd enjoy a penus in sexual intercourse, so if that needs to be clarified I suppose we have to wait.

This whole situation just looks like a bunch of attempting to justify liking cocks without getting the social stigma of admitting to homosexual impulses.  So keep lying to yourself, that works in the long run right?

as far as seeing MTF as men is concerned, when intercourse is concerned, a male body with a male body is homosexual, no matter who feels what concerning them.

also unless he means he has a shamanistic focus that is shaped like a penus, "penus fetish" means he'd enjoy a penus in sexual intercourse, so if that needs to be clarified I suppose we have to wait.

This whole situation just looks like a bunch of attempting to justify liking cocks without getting the social stigma of admitting to homosexual impulses.  So keep lying to yourself, that works in the long run right?

Firstly, I'd have an easier time where I am now by simply ACCEPTING that title if it made sense to my orientation. I'd certainly be more likely to attend a gay bar or club were it that easy.

Homosexual impulses? Using that terminology, since you love it so much...Do impulses qualify as a full orientation? No. And still, a bisexual likes a man as a man and a woman as a woman, not a mixture like I do.

And first of all, this whole discussion is a semantical argument. My semantics are more complex because I see the issue as more complex. Mainly because I won't just run up to a guy and be attracted or what have you. Which is pretty damn important if you want to call someone gay.

So, how much sense do you make?

I'm just talking about the act, not classifying you, classifying sex based on the physical gender of those involved.

I realize it's not possible to classify overall sex including emotions and personalities and such, because it's subjective, I'm not attempting to classify that.  Or you, just the act of sex.

Also bisexuals aren't a 50/50 split or necessarily manly men versus feminine women, bisexual just means both genders, or two genders, as in enjoying both, not necessarily equally, again personal preference interferes with classification so it can't include body types or personalities because subjective.  In the situation of classifying the act, bisexuality can only occur when having sex with both in a group (orgy etc...) or a hermaphrodite.

One last time, I'm classifying the ACT of sex, based on the PHYSICAL GENDER of the people involved, not orientations, not giving you a title, I'm saying sex between two penus-bearing humans is homosexual, which it is.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I realize it came across completely differently than I intended it, and we pretty much agree on most points across the board and were wording things differently.  My bad.

Also bisexuals aren't a 50/50 split, bisexual just means both genders, or two genders, as in enjoying both, not necessarily equally, again personal preference interferes with perfect classification.

One last time, I'm classifying the ACT of sex, based on the PHYSICAL GENDER of the people involved, not orientations, not giving you a title, I'm saying sex between two penus-bearing humans is homosexual, which it is.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I realize it came across completely differently than I intended it, and we pretty much agree on most points across the board and were wording things differently.  My bad.

Thanks, I appreciate you for clarifying the situation. I had the idea that the semantics were making this weirder than it should have been. And again about the physical gender, it's better to use the term "sex" maybe but maybe not, seems to add confusion...XD Hard to have a dialogue with such flimsy terms.

Well, if you want to go by that flexible definition of bi, then that would make me bisexual. Though I still feel these terms are very inadequate to describe the full breadth of human sexuality. Every other time I hear of some bisexual guy I've asked them about transpersons and they didn't really like the idea.

I feel that everybody is bisexual to some degree, and that there is no absolute homo or heterosexual persons at all on the earth, so I don't try to classify people, just the stuff I can classify, being the act

that is to say that people's minds and personalities and identities are too varied and subjective to be classified.

a man engages in sexual intercourse with a human being with a penus (man).

Wrong.

Wut?

Yeah it is.

I feel that everybody is bisexual to some degree, and that there is no absolute homo or heterosexual persons at all on the earth, so I don't try to classify people, just the stuff I can classify, being the act

that is to say that people's minds and personalities and identities are too varied and subjective to be classified.

Ah, I see. Sorry, I wasn't going by that criteria, though it does make a lot of sense to focus on that instead.

as far as seeing MTF as men is concerned, when intercourse is concerned, a male body with a male body is homosexual, no matter who feels what concerning them

Welp, he's already said he doesn't find the male body attractive.  

The only classifications that can be given are for the act, because there are constants.  Male and Female. These things are easily defined.  I'm saying that the act of sex between two beings with penises is Homosexual.

Biologically, sexuality can encompass sexual intercourse and sexual contact in all its forms, as well as medical concerns about the physiological or even psychological aspects of sexual behaviour.

Haven't recent studies shown that often transgendered people have different... I don't want to guess since I've forgotten and I'm no biologist... SOMETHING inside them that reveals they are somewhat biologically the opposite sex from birth? The point is, I don't think it's fair to group them with people of their original gender (sex) when they are entirely different and want to be as far removed from their sex as possible. I also don't think it's fair to group a person who is mostly attracted to MTF transgendered people in with a sexuality that is considered by almost everybody to be man-on-man.

This whole situation just looks like a bunch of attempting to justify liking cocks without getting the social stigma of admitting to homosexual impulses.  So keep lying to yourself, that works in the long run right?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

a man engages in sexual intercourse with a human being with a penus (man).

Wrong.

Wut?

Yeah it is.

A human being with a penis is not necessarily a man.

However, we're mostly arguing semantics now.

Ah, I see. Sorry, I wasn't going by that criteria, though it does make a lot of sense to focus on that instead.

I wasn't clear at first, sorry for that

Haven't recent studies shown that often transgendered people have different... I don't want to guess since I've forgotten and I'm no biologist... SOMETHING inside them that reveals they are somewhat biologically the opposite sex from birth? The point is, I don't think it's fair to group them with people of their original gender (sex) when they are entirely different and want to be as far removed from their sex as possible. I also don't think it's fair to group a person who is mostly attracted to MTF transgendered people in with a sexuality that is considered by almost everybody to be man-on-man.

chemical imbalances while in the womb cause the brain to develop similarly to the opposite gender, even though physical gender has already been decided genetically.
Physical gender is determined by chromosomes, even a MTF has XX chromosomes.

I don't group TG people with their original gender, and I'm not saying that they are wrong for feeling how they are or whatever (lordy that would be hypocritical) I'm just applying a straightforward and cut and dry classification to the act of sex, based on the physical bodies involved.  Not telling people what to call themselves or how to feel or something.

But that does bring up an interesting gray area.  Is a MTF vagina still a penis for the determination of classifying the act of sex with them?  I'm not sure I have a good answer at this point, or will ever.  I'm just classifying what I can.

Like I said, I was unclear about what I was trying to say, and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I wasn't referring to a chemical imbalance (which seems a copout). I am also well aware that a transgendered person does not suddenly swap out an old chromosome for a new one. However, I remember reading something not long ago that found it to be a birth "defect." It's probably got something to do with chromosomes and all that good stuff.

I've done research and all I could find was the research showing that transgendered individuals were exposed to high levels of both estrogen and testosterone while growing in the womb, which caused the brain to develop awkwardly.

If you've found something else I'd love to see it though