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Reives' Dimensional Time Theory - <The Motionless World>

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Edit: *Note* - Tsuno's theory is a few posts down; and a discussion concerning free will and stuff are also a few posts away.

Dimensional Time Theory
<The Motionless World>

By: Kan G./Reives


*Based on sequential logic.
*Short version of the theory; too lazy.
*IMPORTANT*: This theory has no actual values more than just giving you something potentially interesting to read. If the content seems to be disturbing in any way for some reason; there is no need for such feel for it affects nothing.

This is a theory regarding the existence of time I began working on in High School, but after I showed a semi-finished product to a teacher, he told me he had seen something similar many times. I was rather discouraged, and gave up on developing the ideology. However now that I realize that it is rather impossible to create something completely original now days, I dug this up again and decided to simply show it for a discussion for the bored.

That, and the fact that I’m in a 2-hours comp science lecture (the most boring piece of )*@$ ever) helps too (thank god for on-campus wireless network).


Before I start, the thesis of this theory is that our existence has eternally been in this single frame of time; and that moving through time is a mere illusion as the I in the past is not the I at this point in time.

The theory will have to be built upon some dimensional fundamentals, so there’ll be a rather boring intro, mm’kay?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here we go.


First of all; the first dimension is a single line, in which a point can be located by the expression (x).

 




The second dimension is a flat surface, in which a point can be located by the expression (x,y); [width and height].

But however, this 2D flat surface can also be seen as an infinite stack of lines; which is the first (and its previous) dimension. And in order for such thing to exist, all lines (its previous dimension) have to co-exist simultaneously.


The third dimension can be represented by a cube, in which a point upon it can be located by the expression (x,y,z); [width, height and depth].
 
But however, this 3D cube can also be seen as an infinite stack of flat surfaces (think of a stack of paper); which is the second (and its previous) dimension. But in order for such thing to exist, all flat surfaces (its previous dimension) have to co-exist simultaneously.


Finally, the fourth dimension; time. We think of ourselves as moving through time, with every second that passes. This can be noobishly illustrated by the following diagram:

-Where the solid circle representing one single frame in time. According to the pattern demonstrated by the previous dimensions, the solid circle (now) would be a motionless frame of the third dimension (which does make sense).


However, if we look back at the previous dimensions;

-The stacks of their previous dimension that makes up their entity co-exist simultaneously. If only one line existed at the same time in a flat surface, it would not be a flat surface but a single line. If only one flat surface existed at the same time in a cube, it would not be a cube but a single flat surface.

So now, looking back at our previously stated fourth dimension of us moving through time as time progresses; is sequential logically speaking, not the actual case. 


And instead, following the pattern demonstrated by the previous dimensions, every single piece of the 4th dimension’s previous dimension (3rd, and motionless frames in time), actually all co-exists at the same time.


But what would this mean; that every single frame of time exists simultaneously? In every single frame, there would be a world where everything is that of future or past relative to us; and we are merely one single frame.

Hence, theoretically speaking, this defeats the idea of a single “now”, unless stated relative to one single frame. This would make every single instance a ‘now’, since none is perished or ‘to-come’.



What this would also mean would be that there is no such thing as ‘motion’ in time. Moving through time as we like to describe, is merely an illusion triggered by the ever-lasting memory of the previous frames in time that we are aware of.

Sit back for a moment and think of this moment in time. Do you feel you have any non-illusionary connection with your past? Even if just one second ago, all you can do is simply remember it. If you cut yourself with a knife a moment ago, you may still have the wound; but the causing of the wound itself was not caused by the ‘you’ in this frame of time.

All you can truly feel, is simply this single frame of time; the "now" relative to us is forever this single moment in time despite that we feel that we have a future and a past. Sure, they exist, but we have not come from our past and nor are we going to the future.

And not surprisingly, the previous theory demonstrates the lack of motion and the simultaneous existence of all frames of time would also imply this:
The frame of time we are in at this moment is not in motion; hence we, the subjects in the said frame, have not moved as well. We have been in this frame of motion from the moment it existed, and have been stuck in this single frame of time for eternity.

But we do not feel it, because we will always have the illusion of motion from our memories.


However, this is a theory that is loosely based on many flawed aspects. And even true, it would mean nothing more than a grain of sand. We still live as we felt as before, and we continue to have the feeling that we are actually moving through time.

In such cases, the appearance of something completely overshadows the non-existent importance of what could be true.


And in conclusion; this is simply something to think and chuckle about.


-Kan G. / Reives
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 01:20:52 AM by Reives »

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I see what you are saying, it is simple, yet it (possibly) explains one of the most complex concepts we know of. Don't think of it as being so...Unneccesary. If you could prove this theory, it would be the building block for further study into time, and possibly, the illusion of time TRAVEL. Now wouldn't THAT be something?! ;D

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Time travel is impossible. I'll explain why in a bit.

@Reives - Interesting idea, I myself came up with a theory for this not too long ago. I recommend you research "Ground Zero" (I'm not refering to 9/11 or WTC BTW.) as it will help you to further your theory.

@arrowone - I didn't read all of what was posted but got a general idea of what it was saying, my theory was similar, only it involved time bubbles.

And my definition of dimentions was -

1st - Universe
2nd - Ground Zero
3rd - Heaven
4th - Hell
5th - Where they all cross

Construction of a time bubble - (as interpreted by me)



My theory stated that we live in a time bubble.



A few definitions (once again as defined by me) -

Ground Zero - Contains all that has been or could have been, also known as the realm of possibility.

Type 0 - Destroys all matter comming out of the "Now", and only allows that which will not disrupt the space-time-continuim(sp?) in.
Type 1 - Only allows that which has been in the "Now" to exit, and transforms the possibility into matter when going into the "Now".

Anti_Matter = Matter that was in the "Now", passed through Type 0, and somehow got back through and remains in the 5th dimension. (forgot to label it, it's in between Type 0 and 1)
Anti_Atoms = Atoms that make up anti matter and interact with Pro_Atoms (or atoms in the "Now")

Our concience spans throught the future, present, and past. Matter is created and destroyed at the same time, and our free will exists in Ground Zero, making our minds to hard to recreate.

Time travel is impossible simply because if we managed to "force time" (deja vu and anti-matter are evidences of "forced time") and shove through the barrier which keeps us in, it would be impossible to continue, we would be destroyed since Ground_Zero is both everything yet nothing, since entering it would be the only way to travel time.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 01:32:15 AM by Tsunokiette »
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If time travel were possible, don't you think we'd be seeing people from the future now?  :-\
:tinysmile:

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No, I mean the ILLUSION of time travel. If our memories PERSONALLY give us the illusion of time, then they could also (thoretically) give the illusion of time TRAVEL.

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So... you're talking about playing pretend? LOL  ;)
:tinysmile:

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In a sense, yes. If we are tricked into thinking (by whatever means) that we are moving through time...then why can't we do it backwards?

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Tsun:
Interesting theory as well; though I'll have to read it again tomorrow when my mind's not as sleepy as now, then respond to it~

Quote from: arrowone
In a sense, yes. If we are tricked into thinking (by whatever means) that we are moving through time...then why can't we do it backwards?
Actually I do have similar thoughts.

For example, theoratically if we lift a 2 dimensional 'being' in an upward matter, it would not be able to interpret what happened for it has no sense of depth, if it can interpret it as anything at all. If all we are is one single frame with the memories that illusionates the sense of motion, then whatever happens we will still feel the same thing, given whatever 'direction' we 'move' in. Although, in that sense, there aren't any actual 'movements' at all.

Our definition of things are limited to what we can interpret; and things such as this is beyond what we can interpret. Even if something that can be related to 'time travel' exists; no matter how hard we think of such things, its essential structure is simply beyond our's realm of thoughts. Which is also why this is more of a interest-based thing than something actually valuable.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 05:31:16 AM by Reives »

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Exactly, I'm glad that we can understand eachother! It's a really strange thought, you know? It's like every moment of our lives are a piece of an animation, totally useless by itself.

By this logic, aren't we then without free will? And even if we COULD trick ourselves into believing we traveled through time...would it matter? Could we change anything at all?

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Edit: *Warning* Content below (regarding free will mainly) might be disturbing to some.
Edit: *Reminder* The topic is purely hallow and serves no purpose in terms of reality other than food for thought; so don't go nuts. :P

If this train of thoughts is followed; then no, we do not have free will. Because if this is so, there will be no such things to be 'decided'; for what is ahead already exists.

Personally speaking, I do not actually believe in free will, however. Our behaviours are caused by the brain, which is a physical matter. It receives inputs and sends out outputs based on the inputs.

And before we go any further:
If we hold a pencil and let it fall, the direction it will point at after it falls seem completely random to us; we do not know where it's going to fall. But however, that does not mean that it might fall to face any direction at 'random'. Its motion will be limited by the attributes around it: gravity, wind circulation, and all that. And every single one of these circumstances at that point in time adds up to determine the one direction that it is going to point at after it stops rolling.

If we 'scroll' the time back and watch it happen again given the same circumstances, it will happen the same way again; because physical matters' behaviours are helplessly influenced by everything that affects them.


Now back to the brain. The brain itself, no matter how complex, is a physical matter. The nerves, blood vessels and other functioning tissues and parts; they are all affected by everything that affects them. And like programming from the 01000110001 binary codes; everything lapses together to create something such complex.

But the 'primary data' is none the less helplessly influenced by the other matters. And at every moment, it just so happens that whatever circumstances adds up to affect it in that exact way. And its output, like any other physical matters; would be simply 'calculated'.

In that manner of speaking; I guess you can say everything was determined the moment that everything existed. Perhaps if someone has limitless calculation abilities and the knowledge of every single thing happening in the entire world; everything is predictable.


Edit: But anyhow, it doesn't matter whether free will exists. All it matters is that we feel that we have the ability to choose. Knowledge might be power, but ignorance is happiness. And you wouldn't even know if this world is fake right now.  ;)


This is getting a bit disturbing though, heh.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 05:50:02 AM by Reives »

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Again, that's exactly what I mean. Everyone says math is the basis of everything you do in life, but the irony of the situation is that the don't know the power of that statement. They think on a daily level, like your job or your grocery bill. They do not stop to consider that there entire lifetime is as you said, "precalculated."

Now consider this:

We've been discussing science. According to the rules of science, Religion is not something you can disprove, because it is based on faith and is therfore, not a science.

HOWEVER

By this logic, everything is predetermined, and we have no freewill. One could not change their actions in order to get taken into heaven or sent to hell, or anywhere in between. This brings us to my question:

Do you believe your theory MIGHT cancel out the possibility of there being any validity to any religion?

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\If you could prove this theory,
I think it's pretty much impossible to 'prove' these kind of theories as it is to prove a negative. I based it off in sequential logic upon the commonly accepted theories today, which logically makes sense; so I guess it's fairly close to what's possible in terms of 'proving' (which is still far from actually proving it).

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Hmmm...I thought about it again, and when you take into consideration that God is supposedly the Creator, and knowss how everything works, plus he has total control...he could change any variable to his will.

That being said, making games is, as far as I can tell from all of this, LITERALLY playing God!

Obviously on a much smaller scale, and much more simplified, but it's pretty much the same concept.

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Again, that's exactly what I mean. Everyone says math is the basis of everything you do in life, but the irony of the situation is that the don't know the power of that statement. They think on a daily level, like your job or your grocery bill. They do not stop to consider that there entire lifetime is as you said, "precalculated."

Now consider this:

We've been discussing science. According to the rules of science, Religion is not something you can disprove, because it is based on faith and is therfore, not a science.

HOWEVER

By this logic, everything is predetermined, and we have no freewill. One could not change their actions in order to get taken into heaven or sent to hell, or anywhere in between. This brings us to my question:

Do you believe your theory MIGHT cancel out the possibility of there being any validity to any religion?
I understand what you are saying.

But the thing is that religions, like you said, is based on faith; something non-factual (not necesarily in a negative sense). This makes it invulunerable to anything at all, because it's formless like air.

Even if a theory makes perfect sense in every way scientifically, it would mean squat to those who are religious.

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You could easily be a teacher. I enjoy your work! Do you have any other theories to share?

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Very intresting... I like these theories, they are very mind provoking...

btw I always learned that a fact is somthing that can be proven or disproven
there are only facts or opinions

"Here begin the torments of Hell proper" -Danta's inferno

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Hmmm...I thought about it again, and when you take into consideration that God is supposedly the Creator, and knowss how everything works, plus he has total control...he could change any variable to his will.

That being said, making games is, as far as I can tell from all of this, LITERALLY playing God!

Obviously on a much smaller scale, and much more simplified, but it's pretty much the same concept.
Exactly.  :) 

I actually had a theory for the relative creation which compares us with 'god' in everything we do; but that's from years back and I can't really remember it clearly now...


Anyhow, I gotta log off for the night for now; it's 2:04 and I got class tomorrow. :/

Good discussion, maybe we can continue it tomorrow~

----

And heh, a teacher probably doesn't suit me. These things are purely ideological, and even if I were able to fill little kids' minds with absurd ideologies of such things as 'zomg  you don't literally have a future' or 'zomg everything isn't real', the parents'd beat the crap outta me.

I do have some other theories, all from a while back though. Most are hazy since I've given up thinking of these for a while now; but I can probably dig some up in time. Thanks for your interest in the matter!~ :)

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@ Atomic: Yes, this is true. Opinion can in some circumstances be turned into theory, however, and then into fact if proven as such. Because Science is a constant dance of approval and disproval, however, we cannot know for sure what is fact and what is not until someone "pretends" they have seen the end of time...

@Reives: Sweet. Awesome that I have someone this smart to talk to. Sleep well, dude.

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Please tell me you didn't read the entire theory...

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who did?!?
i was getting a friggin headache lol, just saying reading the smaller posts.
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I skimmed a little bit over it and want to add something: The 5th dimension density. :nerd:

As you know a higher dimension is able to "compress" lower dimension, so density would be able to compress time. Every of the time frames you mentioned would be existing at the same moment. Therefore you just stay at one frame you like and decompress the time. You will find yourself in the future/past. Time travel is possible this way (forward AND backward), but who can compress time?! The only thing humans succeeded with was space compression (only 3 dimensions, unsing the 4th, since time is the 4th). Space compression is not existant in one of the time frames, but in the next it is, so we used time to compress space.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 02:41:34 PM by Blizzard »
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I never thought of the fifth dimension thing, that's pretty cool. Well I guess the bottom line is that it is not possible for one dimension to manipulate and truly visualize higher dimensions.

Could you elaborate on how humans managed to compress space with time by the way, Bliz~?

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Density...I didn't think of that either!

STUPID QUESTION:

Are there higher dimensions that we know of beyond the fifth?

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Yes. But it's "know" with the quotation marks.