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Erotic Manga to be Banned?

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Quote from: SankakuComplex
Japanese publishing giant Kadokawa has announced they intend to boycott the Tokyo International Anime Fair to protest against the Tokyo government’s extreme hostility towards the anime industry.

Shinichiro Inoue, the CEO of a number of companies in the Kadokawa group, tweets thus:

    Kadokawa has decided it will not be participating in next year’s Tokyo Anime Fair – the attitude of the Tokyo government to mangaka and the anime industry simply won’t do.

Due to the size of Kadokawa’s vast publishing empire and its many subsidiary publishers, the move would see everything from Haruhi and Ore no Imouto to Gundam and Index removed from TAF (although anime adaptations of certain titles published by Kadokawa might still be present if produced by independent companies), denuding it of many hit titles and probably devastating the event, even without any other companies following suit.

taf-ishihara.jpg

Tokyo’s governor Ishihara for his part previously warmly endorsed the event in a lengthy passage published in their own promotional material:

    “I’m hopeful the event will prove a place where the Japan can proudly showcase the charms of its animation industry to the world, and where new business can be pursued – it is after all one of Tokyo’s great regional industries.”

This from the man who is now leading the charge against the industry, denouncing the industry as being “out of control” whilst dismissing all critics as crazed child abusers.


=====================

The Democratic Party of Japan is reporting that its legislators in the Tokyo metropolitan assembly have agreed to support the looming ban on the sale of unhealthy anime, manga and games.

Masaki Ito, a DPJ Tokyo assemblyman, reports all the cliques in his party are in agreement that will support the Tokyo government’s efforts to restrict the sale of manga, anime and games featuring fictional sex crimes:

    We will support it, with the addition of a supplementary resolution [...] which requests the prudent application of the law.

Naturally, there is no objective standard for what is “prudent application” of a restriction on the sale of “harmful literature,” and no legal process or independent assessment of what should be banned.

Doubtless governor Ishihara would now be delighted to see the pesky manga industry disappear completely; indeed, it could only help sales of his own rape novels, which are exempted from any sort of restriction, along with films – so conspicuous an exemption that many cannot help but conclude the law is aimed solely at persecuting the anime, manga and game industries.

The whole fiasco also exposes some rather alarming deficiencies in the publishing industry; in most democratic countries a coalition of publishers would have little trouble protecting their interests from the marauding populism of a single local politician backed only by a zealous PTA, but Japan’s major publishers seem to have failed to secure the support of a single major party even at a local level in the national centre of the industry.

Ito goes on to politely explain how much public opposition to the bill his party has received, and how he will be ignoring it all completely:

    We’ve received lots of mail about this. I haven’t had a chance to read it all, but I’ve seen much of it. Maybe we haven’t fully addressed your concerns, but I am grateful you have displayed such passion towards the Tokyo metropolitan government.

It would appear the Democrats will support the ban despite unanimous opposition from mangaka and publishers, a petition with 150,000 signatures opposing the law and what appears to be overwhelmingly negative public opinion – Japanese democracy at its finest.

Due to the self serving nature of politicians, the shady backroom nature of Japanese politics, and the complete lack of reliability in mass media reporting in Japan, it is difficult to say whether this member’s public statements will reflect how matters play out – previously parts of the DPJ were said to be vehemently opposed to the bill – but it certainly does not sound promising.

The actual vote is due on the 15th of December, and efforts to dissuade politicians from supporting the ban continue – vainly, it seems.

=================================================================
http://img1.sankakustatic.com/wp-content/gallery/safe-ix/taf-boycott-before-and-after.jpg

The helpful graphic above demonstrates the expected devastating effect of the anime industry’s boycott of the 2011 Tokyo International Anime Fair in protest against the Tokyo government’s campaign against manga.

The event itself looks to be in danger of cancellation, but far more damaging is the effect on the reputation of both Ishihara and the Tokyo government – some companies, such as Pixiv below, already seem to be hedging their bets


====================================================================

10 publishers, including Kodansha, Shogakukan and Kadokawa, have announced they will have nothing to do with the Tokyo International Anime Fair due to the persecution the Tokyo government has been directing at them.

It now appears the event may as well be cancelled – if they are lucky Disney will show up, but not much else is left.

The publishers do not mince words:

    “[Ishihara and company] have been repeatedly making dishonest statements filled with inaccuracies

    The ban is completely vague and tramples underfoot the previous understandings between publishers and the Tokyo government.”

Tokyo’s governor Ishihara would probably be delighted if the entire anime industry collapsed along with their event – less filthy porn and fewer foreigners to deal with – and is not afraid to show it:

    “Ah, well, they just decided to do that by themselves. Maybe it has something to do with the ban, I don’t know, they have their own interpretation of it all.

    It doesn’t bother me at all! By all means, please feel free to do as you see fit!”

Meanwhile leftist Japanese media, such as Asahi, has begun desperately reporting (although they actually began claiming this as soon as the new bill was announced) that the DPJ is now “expected” to approve the revised law – although strangely their media groups are the only ones to do so and reports from Twitter claim a majority of Tokyo assemblymen still oppose the reworded ban.

The vote on the bill is due in December, and should demonstrate whether a senile old man and a tiny band of crazed moral crusaders can cripple Japan’s anime, manga and game industries over the opposition of the entire Japanese publishing industry.

Links (Not Safe for Work):
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/09/kadokawa-to-boycott-tokyo-anime-fair-over-ishihara/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/13/dpj-backs-manga-ban/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/12/tokyo-anime-fair-before-after/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/10/10-publishers-boycott-taf-ishihara-just-keeps-lying/


For one, this might mean the end of Hentai . . . @___@ I have mixed feelings on this.

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Oh, there'll always be hentai. It might just be harder to find.
:tinysmile:

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If people want anything bad enough, it's not going anywhere. Let's see if japan gets into a 'war on porn'.

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I'm just seen certain forums & places going in a massive panic over this, I wouldn't be surprise if the japanese do make a revolt to stop the ban for porn :x

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Quote from: SankakuComplex
restrict the sale of manga, anime and games featuring fictional sex crimes

Well, hentai is weird anyway and the legislation would only ban fictional sex crimes. In my opinion, the world could do with (a) less cartoons having sex; and (b) less publications intended to generate rape fantasies, designed to elicit pleasure from settings in which people are stripped of their humanity and traumatically tortured.

I don't have mixed feelings; I hope it passes. Of course, the internet makes it practically impossible to stop distribution, so it probably won't have any effect anyway.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 10:56:51 PM by modern algebra »

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It's Japan. I doubt it'll pass.




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Quote from: SankakuComplex
restrict the sale of manga, anime and games featuring fictional sex crimes

Well, hentai is weird anyway and the legislation would only ban fictional sex crimes. In my opinion, the world could do with (a) less cartoons having sex; and (b) less publications intended to generate rape fantasies, designed to elicit pleasure from settings in which people are stripped of their humanity and traumatically tortured.


As much as I dislike the whole torture/rape fetish thing, I'd rather people read about it than go out and do it.
:tinysmile:

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By the numbers (last I was told/read) they have some of the lowest rape and sex crime numbers internationally. I think we, americans, actually have some of the worst.

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Your source is Sankaku, never listen to them. :X

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Ahhhhhh yeah. I didn't notice that before. TOPIC INVALID! :V

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Time to try and download the entire contents of lu.scio.us before this goes crazy and starts charging

This is.... nonsense?

Maybe?


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The internet is in a state that cannot easily be ruptured. It's as pure as the 'supply and demand' concept can get. You can try to regulate it, but you'll find that in the end you can only regulate your own little territory. If people don't like the way you run things, well, they can leave.

Your country restricts your access? They don't like it when you browse certain things? Well, someone out there is very good with computers, and if you ask nicely they'll tell you all about why that doesn't matter.

Unless some sort of seismically powerful force rips through the entire net in a single swoop, initiating a kind of N.W.O., I really doubt we have to worry about anything like this.

As for hentai / etc. and its production in traditional media, well... outsourcing.

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Your source is Sankaku, never listen to them. :X
:x Got any source I could use then?

Quote from: Sankaku
tenshi-beako-by-akiba-hideki.jpg

Tokyo’s ban on anime, manga and games featuring “virtual crimes” or which are “likely to interfere with the healthy development of youth” has passed after the DPJ agreed to support it.

The DPJ’s only addition to the critical portion of the law was a short rider which requests “prudent application of the law in light of any artistic, social, scientific or satirical merits the work might express” – it does not however add any legal obligation to consider these, or establish any clear or indepdently enforced criteria for judging whether a work can be declared “harmful” or not.

Even more bizarrely, the final draft actually removed a passage that imposed “a duty not to possess [photographic] child pornography” on Tokyo residents, whilst leaving the section banning erotic manga and anime (and explicitly excluding photographic materials) all but unchanged – that the bill is intended exclusively as an “anti-otaku” law seems to be beyond doubt.

It is very difficult to objectively assess the scope of the law – along with vague and subjective terms like “interfere with the healthy development of youth,” the law also includes “etc.” on the end of most of its examples, leaving it quite unclear, for example, whether the “improper glorification of illegal sexual activity, etc.” applies to only virtual sex crimes, or all crimes in general – presumably the interpretation adopted will be whichever is convenient to censors.

Similarly, the ban’s mention of “rape and other sexual acts which violate societal norms” seems inevitably to point to a ban on depictions of homosexuality, considering who was behind the law.

The generally expected form the law will take is that of a “amakudari” (a pervasive system of sinecures for retired bureaucrats) body which will inspect all anime, manga and games, with only those titles receiving approval as “healthy” able to be sold regularly in Tokyo shops – the rest will be relegated to the “adult corner.”

The most immediate and direct effect of the law will almost certainly be to see ecchi manga such as To Love-Ru, bishoujo titles such as Champion Red and most BL manga, as well as any seinen manga with especially mature themes, banned from general sales – presumably most will then be cancelled due to a lack of suitable magazine or tankobon distribution channels, with a few perhaps being resurrected as 18+ ero-manga.

As has already been seen, publishers will also likely be purging future anime, manga and games of any content liable to fall foul of the law, and removing older titles from distribution.

The law probably also spells the end of most late night anime in Tokyo (and by extension, everywhere else), which it would appear to ban under its distribution clause; given the vague wording of the current season alone it seems Ore no Imouto, Panty & Stocking, Yosuga, Sora no Otoshimono, Milky Holmes and others would all fall foul of its various stipulations.

There is also some doubt as to whether Comiket will be able to be held under the new regulations – if not, its cancellation or removal to another prefecture seems likely, although a lack of sufficiently large spaces may severely complicate this.

The law comes into effect in July of 2011, so with magazine, tankobon, anime and game release schedules being what they are, it seems likely its effects will be felt much sooner; in a genuinely democratic state there might be scope to overturn it before then, but from what has been seen so far it seems unlikely publishers have the guts or savvy to do anything about it.
I thought it was going to pass in two days :V now I see it's reliability ~


By the numbers (last I was told/read) they have some of the lowest rape and sex crime numbers internationally. I think we, americans, actually have some of the worst.
They actually do have the lowest rape & sex crimes, that is since the majority of the population never comes out of their rooms.

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Don't they have ANYTHING like freedom of press in Japan? If so, why is this even an issue? I'm kinda ignorant on Japanese law, I suppose, but I'd expect any free country to have something akin to it. I myself am no fan of rape fantasy- it makes my stomach turn- but hey, I don't buy it or read it. Problem solved. If merely having it around is a component of lowering the rate of crimes, which it seems to be, I'll live with it.
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I would distrust those statistics. A) Rape is defined more restrictively in Japan than it is in most Western countries; and B) Japan is a very sexist country. Sex crimes are typically under-reported, especially in sexist cultures where the police are likely to dismiss complainants as "asking for it."

Sex crimes in manga could be leading to a decrease in sex crimes - I don't know  - but the statistics don't prove that it does since lower numbers can just as easily be explained by the fact that they contribute to the creation of a culture that normalizes sex crimes and leads to under-reporting.

Besides, fetishes aren't inherent - they develop in the psyche as children. The more you expose children to rape scenarios in a setting designed to elicit sexual pleasure and gratification, the more you increase the prevalence of those fetishes. Even if it did lead to less actual offences, the normalizing factor of it alone should be enough to still want to ban it.


And freedom of the press refers to journalism. These have no journalistic merit. It's more freedom of expression, but freedom of expression is always limited in every country it exists - normally violent expressions or hate speech. In the UK, the US and Canada, you can bet that any pornography depicting children or rape are prohibited. As far as I'm concerned, manga depicting rape is hate speech towards women and contributes further to the sexism already prevalent in Japan especially, but really everywhere.

I can see no value or benefit in encouraging or enabling other human beings to view women (or men) as mere objects for sexual gratification with no sexual autonomy of their own.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 03:53:23 PM by modern algebra »

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That makes sense. I suppose I'd need to know more statistics before arguing further, but I still say that even though I am an opponent of that kind of material, I am a proponent of allowing people to decide for themselves what is and is not appropriate material. Further, I think that governmental bans on anything do two negative things: firstly, it encourages the banned object/substance/material to become that much more appealing to a wide enough section of the population to INCREASE it's demand, thereby secondly increasing the rate of crime. Look at prohibition, for example, or the US's current criminalization on marijuana- otherwise law abiding, non-violent people are being thrown into the criminal punishment system for things that are largely harmless which taxes the system's resources. And for what?  A little pot? Or in this case, a drawing of sex acts? It seems silly to me.

On the other hand, if it is true that sex crimes are under-reported in Japan, and if this material has something to do with that, I would reverse my position in no time because it would have shown itself to be harmful enough to warrant its ban. I'll need more information before that happens, though.

EDIT: Just read your last edit, and I have to say that it is convincing. If we are to look at it as hate speech, though, how then do we stand on film pornography which depicts the same? Since porno is SUPPOSED to be fantasy anyway, and is allowed in the US that I know of to show that kind of violent material- which I maintain, I personally detest- then should we start drawing lines there, too?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 04:05:02 PM by Vulcan Raven »
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The way I see it, it's artwork. I might not like the contents of it, but it's still just artwork, and people should be allowed to draw whatever the hell they want to (within reason*). You can argue some artwork "teaching people bad things" just like Thompson does for the video game industry, but in then end most people will think of it as just a piece or art or game, even if they don't like what it depicts. I think Japan will allow this stuff because it's just art.


*Note, I say within reason because there are probably examples of artwork out there that would probably contradict me. Things like stuff done for the sole intention of malevolence and mental harm, like if someone drew a picture specifically of you graphically getting your throat slit or something. I guess the point I'm making is that for the most part art is just art, though there'll be debatable "exceptions".




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Quote from: Sankaku
Japan’s prime minister Naoto Kan has deplored the devastation Tokyo governor Ishihara has wrought on the Tokyo International Anime Fair, stressing the importance of spreading anime to the world and urging all sides to come to an accommodation even as Shueisha announced it will be blocking any Shonen Jump anime from appearing there.

The prime minister made the remarks in a recent post on his official blog:

    “Another thing is the matter of Japan, the brand. Currently a great many people are raising concerns about the Tokyo International Anime Fair as it relates to the matter of youth welfare.

    Raising children healthily is an important matter. But at the same time, transmitting Japanese anime to the world is also important.

    I want to see the parties concerned endeavour to avoid causing the Tokyo International Anime Fair to be unable to be held in Tokyo.”

Presumably the comment is intended as both a warning to Ishihara (who has refused any sort of compromise with the publishing industry) not to abuse his position in a manner which will gut both Japan’s “soft power” and its economy and culture, and an exhortation to the Tokyo DPJ to reconsider their support of the law – they have pledged to support it, but the bill has not yet been fully signed into law.

There is unlikely to be any love lost between Kan and Ishihara – Kan is left-wing Democrat with a noted aversion to confrontation, whilst Ishihara is an abrasive populist on the far-right of the political spectrum, so much so that he felt compelled to start his own party of fellow senile geriatric right-wingers as the LDP apparently did not hate foreigners enough for his taste.

Kan’s approval rating is currently under 20% after his handling of the recent Senkaku affair, and it is expected he will not last much longer – thus it may simply be possible nobody will take any notice of him, particularly Ishihara, who actually made the accusation that “many[Democrats] are descendents of non-Japanese” and even urged people to physically attack Kan if he did not stand at a recent military parade.

That it is the likely cancellation of the Tokyo Anime Fair which elicited his comments seems a vindication of the industry’s belated decision to fight back – though an additional threat to cancel Comiket and emphasis on the crushing effect on the Akiba tourist trade are still unstruck targets.

The statements come just as Shueisha declared outright war on the event – their CEO announced that not only would none of their manga titles be appearing, they would be blocking any of the anime based on their titles from appearing as well.

Shueisha publishes Shonen Jump, which is of course the source of One Piece and Naruto, along with so many other internationally renowned anime titles.

it's heating up

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Whether you agree with the art itself or not, you shouldn't be against it. This is free expression we're talking about. Either everything is OK to depict, or nothing is. You can't ban some kinds of expression and allow others. And who cares if it lowers the sex crime rate or not? It probably doesn't influence anybody to actually commit such sex crimes unless they're psycho. And I doubt much of the otaku population is literally psycho, because this man is still alive. (Unfortunately.)

But the point I'm getting at is this: Pornographic anime probably doesn't CAUSE much sex crimes. Whatever happened to people being responsible for their own actions? If an otaku rapes somebody, the anime he watches is not at fault. The otaku himself is at fault. The anime didn't reach out of his TV and put a gun to his head and say "Now you better rape this chick or imma pop you." The rapist always has a choice. The rapist always has the ability to stop himself. There is no such thing as "I couldn't control it" except when it comes to insanity. And I seriously doubt that anime alone can make someone insane.

So, with that being said, there's absolutely no reason to ban this stuff. Let them have their fantasies. They haven't bothered anybody. They're just trying to get off, and the government should not be concerning themselves with what people are masturbating to, unless it's actual CP.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 10:06:48 PM by Animefan »

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Who cares if it lowers the sex crime rate or not?

Uh, people who don't want to be a victim of a sex crime might care.




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Who cares if it lowers the sex crime rate or not?

Uh, people who don't want to be a victim of a sex crime might care.
I put "lowers" in there for a reason dude. D: And I sincerely doubt it heightens the chance. Even if it does, (and it doesn't) it would just be artificial. An individual always has a choice in his actions.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 10:37:57 PM by Animefan »

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:puts on surgeon's gloves:

Whether you agree with the art itself or not, you shouldn't be against it. This is free expression we're talking about. Either everything is OK to depict, or nothing is. You can't ban some kinds of expression and allow others.

Logical Fallacy: Bifurcation

And who cares if it lowers the sex crime rate or not? It probably doesn't influence anybody to actually commit such sex crimes unless they're psycho. And I doubt much of the otaku population is literally psycho, because this man is still alive. (Unfortunately.)

Logical Fallacy: Denying the antecedent (also Sweeping Generalization)

But the point I'm getting at is this: Pornographic anime probably doesn't CAUSE much sex crimes.

Not a logical fallacy, but ignoring the fact that people who enjoy rape fantasies are predisposed to enjoying the idea of rape, and thus are more inclined to do such a thing.  Not only that, but the games can desensitize people to said act, and make it easier to do it, especially by fueling the fetish with an influx of material.

Whatever happened to people being responsible for their own actions?

Logical Fallacy: Plurium interrogationum

If an otaku rapes somebody, the anime he watches is not at fault. The otaku himself is at fault. The anime didn't reach out of his TV and put a gun to his head and say "Now you better rape this chick or imma pop you." The rapist always has a choice. The rapist always has the ability to stop himself.

Logical Fallacy: reductio ad absurdum (also Argumentum ad hominem towards rapists)

There is no such thing as "I couldn't control it" except when it comes to insanity.

Logical Fallacies: Bifurcation and Denying the antecedent

And I seriously doubt that anime alone can make someone insane.

Logical Fallacy: Non Sequitur

So, with that being said, there's absolutely no reason to ban this stuff. Let them have their fantasies. They haven't bothered anybody. They're just trying to get off, and the government should not be concerning themselves with what people are masturbating to, unless it's actual CP.

So, with that being said, your argument was a fallacious straw-man.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 10:40:37 PM by Screaming Mantis »

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Or you can actually respond to the points I made instead of pretending you don't have to because they're "logical fallacies" as you put it. This is clearly just a cop-out to avoid putting up a decent counter. You can't just decide that my argument isn't good enough by using a bunch of big fancy terms to describe it. You're supposed to respond to an argument. Just look at Zylos VVV

And if it's really as fallacious as you say, then you should have no problem punching holes in it.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/13/mangaka-my-publisher-has-banned-school-uniforms/

And as you can see, this is affecting even relatively innocent content.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 10:39:44 PM by Animefan »

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Firstly, yeah, I'm still pretty sure people care if it would lower the rate of crime. If you or a member of your family was the victim of a sex crime, wouldn't you want to do all that you can to try to ensure people don't have to go through what you did?

Secondly, we have no proof either way whether it does or does not affect sex crimes. I'm not saying you're wrong that it doesn't affect the rate; I'm only saying that you've no grounds to say that you're right either.

Thirdly, you can't exactly say a person has a choice when you take their mentality into mind (no pun intended). The age old example is the railroad worker who had a stake driven through his head. Before the accident, he was a good, polite man, but after he had a railroad spike lodged through his skull, a portion of his brain was damaged and he was no longer the same. His emotions were almost polar opposite and had no longer had a sense of restraint at all.


Edit: You bitch, Namkcor. I hope you get raped after this. :mad:




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Actually, pointing out that something fails logically is another way of refuting it.  If the argument is not logically sound, it cannot stand.

So, in essence, I did punch holes in it.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/13/mangaka-my-publisher-has-banned-school-uniforms/

And as you can see, this is affecting even relatively innocent content.

Publisher is afraid to be smitten by the arm of the law, therefore is removing anything that might cause backlash.  It's the publisher overreacting, not the law being too strict.

...

And then on the same page
Man steals 500 school uniforms

and

Manga artist arrested for groping a schoolgirl

I think the point has been made against you by your own source.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 10:48:04 PM by Screaming Mantis »

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