You believe that there is no God, you don't know it. By definition this makes atheism a belief.
Check the actual definition, it has nothing to do with a "belief" in no god(s), it has to do with because there is a lack of evidence in one, the idea isn't worth entertaining. Atheism is built on believing in things with factual, evident surrounds and dismissing things that do not have such.
I promise you that the majority of Atheist would get on their knees and start worshiping with real proof. Honestly.
You obviously believe in the second coming of Jesus to at least some extent, no? Then how will you know that it is really Jesus? I assume that he will have to preform miracles, and heal the sick, no? With that being said, then let me ask you a question: Why can't you just believe..?
Was he traveling with Jesus 2000 years ago as well?
No, but he was going on teachings that where 2000 years old =)
Were at least they traveling with Jesus 2000 years ago?
Ditto.
Because we are here to uncover truth, not extend a lie ( either way mind you )
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Who said it's a lie? You can't prove it to be a lie.
I'm not arrogant, and I'm willing to admit all possibilities. With balance of evidence I would even believe in your god, but you really have no more evidence then Buddhists, who happen to be much more peaceful.
Oh and that again, really was pointless. It's impossible to disprove a negative, i.e: You can't disprove Santa Clause, but do you believe in him? Oh and please tell me
why you don't believe in him. ( if your going to reply to only one question, this would be the one ).
Then ask for proof. Nobody will give it to you, but sure, you can ask.
Yes, that is one difficulty of proving a mans existence, handing up the evidence...
Sure I do. I mean the one who was really called Caesar, the one who lived about half a century before "Jesus was born".
Well he has more then one group of people saying he exists... That's one up on him.
But the last time I checked, I wasn't the one who claimed he existed, nor are we debating that.
Well, he was executed like a criminal. Are there records of criminals everywhere else? Also you say he's only mentioned in the Bible. I'll explain what I think about that further below as well.
Well if these records exist, and they have been authenticated, then please link them up for me.
You told me different last time. You said it was "a tragic event" that made you finally lose your faith. That's what I meant.
You have a bad memory my friend, please check your records. I said to you that before the end of my belief I had some crazy notions about my faith because of the introduction of science and religion, in other words I was trying to rationally think out and dissect my belief. I came to the conclusion that the only possibility that made sense with out irrationality was the non-existence of god.
I actually feel that people who stop believing due to a tragedy have no right to call them selves Atheistic, unless of course their now lack of faith tells them to gain the knowledge to understand.
Lol, you fail to see my point again. (-_-') Of course I didn't mean that LITERALLY. You atheists always have to take things literally. You guys tend to get like that when you get backed in a corner. Wink
Then please tell me how I was meant to take that.
Now to the part with God. So, let's forget all what we know about God, Jesus, etc. It is WELL KNOWN that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. So we couldn't have just started to exist without any special reason.
Obviously, so the conclusion is that the energy has always existed, and why that is not a god will be explained further down.
Obviously there IS something that created everything. Well, this is what I call God. You have a problem with that?
Yes I do. Why add in one step to the mix? The next obvious question to ask would be "then who created god?", but I already know your answer, that being "it always existed". So let me ask you, if it's not so improbably that something can "always" exist, then why wouldn't it be possible for just energy to have always existed? There is no need to add a creator to the mix when it is not necessary, especially a personal one.
We are here and we DO exist. If we don't then I wouldn't even bother explaining. Since we could not just start to exist there HAS TO be an origin. End of story. I don't care how we were created, I don't care when we were created, I don't care by whom we were created, I don't even care if the creator still exists. The point it that there is one. And I pay my damn respect to my creator by at least praying every night even if he isn't there. When my parents die one day, I will go to their grave and I will talk to them as well and pay my respect. That's why I Believe. There IS or WAS something that created us all.
I don't care what the Bible says in this matter, I don't care what people say in this matter. By all logical means there is a God. Even if it's maybe far from what the Bible teaches, there has to be one. We all wouldn't exist if there is none.
Alright, then now would be the correct time to ask, who created your god if you don't have the empathic Christian views..? You do realise that the reason why a timeless being couldn't be self aware would be because the origin of life, yes something without time, would have to be a simple equation..? I always heavily studied specific points when I believed, one of those main points would be "how could god have always existed?", not pondering the possibility of something always being, but the possibility that it would be quite difficult for a self aware entity to have "always" existed. Let's try this one:
How far back can god remember in time?
Alright, if time is meaningless to a god, could it have separated thought?
If so then it must of had a "first" thought, right?
Well obviously not... Then perhaps god thinks, and is as one, time literally is nothing and non-existent ( or was ) to him. If this is the case, and it would have to be if god has no separate thought, which would obviously debunk agelessness if he did, because things have memory of separate thought. Then, can god separate time flowing?
If so, how? If a god doesn't have separate thoughts and exists beyond time then how could he differentiate between passing moments in order to create without having the ability of time, there fore have separate thought? Even if it created time, then it would still need a way to differentiate between it.
If so, then that separate thought would show the difference in time passing, that would have to have some sort of effect were time is actually meaningless, no? Also that would mean that god would have memories and a past and present, destroying what it essentially was, in fact this would mean it changed, something omnipotence doesn't do.
An omnipotent, timeless being is an impossibility if it were self aware as well. If there was an omnipotent being then it evolved from a timeless existence, a simple, stupid existence. Only non-intelligence can be timeless...
If your only reply is going to be, "you can't think in the mind of a god", then don't waste your time.
Now, why I accept the Bible and Jesus in general is a different story. Whether Jesus exited or not, this wouldn't make any difference today. We don't know, we never will. Jesus' principles are what gives life a sense. For one thing it's the stuff with having a sould and hell and heaven, blahblah. EVEN IF all of that is just made up, I would rather enjoy my life by being a good person than just killing of myself. I mean, what's the point of life if there is nothing beyond?! Let's just go and kill us all, it's pointless to live anyway.
I enjoy my life quite profusely, I feel better now then I did as a Christian, I even feel better now then when I believed I would live forever in heaven! Life has plenty of meaning, and we don't need an afterlife to be immortal, we live through history and what we make of our existence.
I don't see why a god is necessary for man to conceive of its origins, as I'm afraid the simplest explanation is often the correct. The simpler explanation being we evolved ( evolved as in "changed" ) from something very simple and ageless. Possibly parallel universes. I would link up some recourses, but this is not something I put my faith in or currently believe. It's simply a more "simple", logical explanation ( compared to a creator ).
As to why this created, omnipotent thing wouldn't be called a "god": Because it is an evolved, living being. Giving an alien the title of god would be the thing a non-understanding society would give it. If this being did exist by the way, and if it did create us, it would certainly not interfere with us on any level past observation, it would also have had to have been un-omnipotent at the time as an all knowing being would have no reason to create. In fact an omnipotent being would in some way or anther "end" its self having nothing left to learn. Mind you, the idea of actual, factual omnipotents is another impossibility.
When I was Christian, I said, knew and told that I didn't have full faith in my god ( just like you ), and was told many reasons as to why this was ( one of them Satan, of course ) I was also told that everyone at one stage or another in their lives went through the same thing. But as soon as I finally allowed myself to let go, it was like the clouds clearing, and ( while not at first ) I have never had the same amount of sureness in what I believe then I had ever had in Theism. In the weakest times of my doubt in Atheism, I am still stronger in my beliefs then I when was with Christianity.
Well, you were the first one who said "He doesn't exists. Your belief and faith is void."
I said the first, but don't put words in my mouth. I was saying that Jesus the Christ does not have enough evidence to validate his existence in a non-biased historical, scientific way. That's what faith is, no? Believing "just because"? If it wasn't, then it would be called "science".
Attack religions as much as you want, I don't care. I was merely stating out that is was a translation mistake and you have to go all over the way "You're dumb to believe he existed. He never did.". If you didn't notice you were attacking me first.
Ever thought that your attacking my beliefs..? You also replied did you not, meaning that you wanted to defend your faith and prove me wrong... If this wasn't the case, then you would have said nothing to what I had posted. Don't try to claim the high ground, you have dirt on your clothes as well.
I think if you have a problem with religion, you don't have to take it out on me. I mean, c'mon, you started a debate in spam. Roll Eyes
I'm not taking this "out on you", I'm debating with you, I enjoy it and I certainly won't think one thing less of you because of this or what you have said, if anything I now like you more
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Oh, I started this in spam because the intelligent debate section is in a stage of drought.
Edit: I see it's been moved...
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